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The civil war was the first instance of this federal overreach. Things haven’t really gotten better since then.

UncleMeat 4y ago
The Confederacy placed enormous control in the centralized government. It was not a contest between a loose collection of states and a centralized federal power.
- claytongulick 4y ago
  Can you describe this more, or link to some materials? I'm not familiar with it. Are we talking about temporary war powers, or was this the long term government structure that would have been powerfully centralized? If accurate, it would certainly change my understanding of the ideals of the confederacy.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    Many people claim that the civil war was over state vs federal authority. They are wrong and have, at best, been duped by lost causers and white supremacists. For example, it was written into the constitution of the confederacy that no state could ban slavery. The confederacy also had strong centralized control over things like money. These were not temporary powers.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      >Many people claim that the civil war was over state vs federal authority. It was; the state vs federal authority to regulate / abolish slavery. Both points of view are right but ignore the other half of the equation. >The confederacy also had strong centralized control over things like money. These were not temporary powers. Can you expound on this? One of the issues with the confederacy is their ability to fund the war through taxation, because many states didn't feel they were obligated to pay it, because state's rights (of course). It's pretty ironic that they seceded over the federal authority over slavery, and the lack of that authority in their own government to fund the war was a major contributing factor in them losing the war, and no longer existing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_war_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_war_finance It's crazy, the plantation class was unwilling to fund the war for their own economic survival, that they were winning at the time. Absolutely mind blowing.
    - claytongulick 4y ago
      > They are wrong and have, at best, been duped by lost causers and white supremacists. Yeah, I'm sort of over absolutism. Everything has nuance. Authoritarianism's favorite tool is to reduce complex issues to "us" vs "them" absolutes.
      - UncleMeat 4y ago
        Lots of things have nuance. I'd encourage you to speak with historians who study the civil war for that nuance. They'll tell you clearly that the narrative of state's rights vs federal authority is not based in the archive.

The Confederacy placed enormous control in the centralized government. It was not a contest between a loose collection of states and a centralized federal power.

claytongulick 4y ago
Can you describe this more, or link to some materials? I'm not familiar with it. Are we talking about temporary war powers, or was this the long term government structure that would have been powerfully centralized? If accurate, it would certainly change my understanding of the ideals of the confederacy.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  Many people claim that the civil war was over state vs federal authority. They are wrong and have, at best, been duped by lost causers and white supremacists. For example, it was written into the constitution of the confederacy that no state could ban slavery. The confederacy also had strong centralized control over things like money. These were not temporary powers.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    >Many people claim that the civil war was over state vs federal authority. It was; the state vs federal authority to regulate / abolish slavery. Both points of view are right but ignore the other half of the equation. >The confederacy also had strong centralized control over things like money. These were not temporary powers. Can you expound on this? One of the issues with the confederacy is their ability to fund the war through taxation, because many states didn't feel they were obligated to pay it, because state's rights (of course). It's pretty ironic that they seceded over the federal authority over slavery, and the lack of that authority in their own government to fund the war was a major contributing factor in them losing the war, and no longer existing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_war_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_war_finance It's crazy, the plantation class was unwilling to fund the war for their own economic survival, that they were winning at the time. Absolutely mind blowing.
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    > They are wrong and have, at best, been duped by lost causers and white supremacists. Yeah, I'm sort of over absolutism. Everything has nuance. Authoritarianism's favorite tool is to reduce complex issues to "us" vs "them" absolutes.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      Lots of things have nuance. I'd encourage you to speak with historians who study the civil war for that nuance. They'll tell you clearly that the narrative of state's rights vs federal authority is not based in the archive.