5 ms·

Honestly, this isn't really even that bad. There are a ton of games ripped off of Zynga that are MUCH closer to the Zynga assets. You could argue Tiny Tower r

by wdewind 15y ago

Honestly, this isn't really even that bad. There are a ton of games ripped off of Zynga that are MUCH closer to the Zynga assets. You could argue Tiny Tower ripped off Sim Tower etc. The whole thing is stupid. We all stand on the shoulders of giants, even other giants.

tedivm 15y ago
I'd agree with you if they were just similar, but the mechanics are the exact same- every aspect of it. There's a difference between "standing on the shoulders of giants" and flat out cloning something- with the first you take an idea, improve it, and make it your own.
- tobtoh 15y ago
  You could similarly argue that Tiny Towers is virtually identical to Farmville, except with a different skin applied. All involve mindless clicking, items (shops/services instead of crops) with variable 'build' times. They have the worthless cash and 'premium' cash (in-app purchases). Tiny Towers has very little game mechanics innovation over Farmville (besides maybe that elevator).
  - tedivm 15y ago
    By that logic there is only one first person shooter.
    - pork 15y ago
      Modern FPS games have detailed stories, considerable original acting and dialog (motion and voice capture), and incredibly detailed artwork. So your analogy doesn't really hold.
      - tedivm 15y ago
        Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, but I disagree that the analogy doesn't hold. What tobtoh described is a genre- it may be a shitty one, but it's still simply a genre. There are different game mechanics, goals, art work and so on- it's just not super complex. Ignoring the differences is like ignoring the acting, dialog and artwork in a first person shooter because they're all just grabbing weapons, running around, and hitting the shoot button.
  - cyanbane 15y ago
    I'm surprised the makers of Zelda haven't sued Bethesda for Skyrim.
  - intended 15y ago
    I would have to disagree very strongly here. Farmville in its current iteration is designed to involve your facebook freinds at every level. Its reward schedule is blatantly designed to encourage social sharing - basically making players skinner boxes for other players. Tiny tower on the other hand can be played in entirely single player fashion, without really being bothered by "Oh you need 3 paint flecks to paint window X! 5 windows, 2 chairs, 4 cuboards, 2 cashiers left to open store! Ask your friends for parts" Farmville is far more diabolical than tiny tower. Its obvious the tiny tower guys are more into making a game, while farmville is just plain sinister.
tensor 15y ago
Standing on the shoulders of giants generally means you evolve or build upon your predecessor. I haven't played either game, but this looks to be a plain reimplementation of the game right down to the mechanics with little or no change. Based on other similar news stories in the past, it seems like this is Zynga's general business plan. While it appears profitable and is legal, it's hardly a laudable practice.
- teej 15y ago
  I could do a screen-for-screen comparison of Battlefield 3 and Modern Warfare 3 and you would have a hard time telling them apart. Each actually has distinct gameplay that sets it apart. I think it's a stretch to say there's clearly "little or no change" from 4 cherry-picked screenshots. Zynga has actually had an improving track record in the last 6 months with Adventure World, Hidden Chronicles and Dream Zoo. They're still sticking to "hit" genres, but they have been pushing out of cloneville and taking more risks.
  - mbrzuzy 15y ago
    I see where you're coming from but I'd have to disagree. Battlefield and Call of Duty are both in a pretty much generic first person shooter genre. The game made by Nimblebit looks like a fairly specific and deliberate Sim type game designed in a specific way for mobile devices. I think the screenshots chosen are good enough to come to the conclusion that it's a clone.
    - teej 15y ago
      I'm not denying that it's a clone. I'm saying that Zynga's "ripoffs" have gone from literal feature-for-feature clones to progressively more "innovative" titles in the last 5 years. Back in 2007, my game was the second game Zynga ever copied. I've been there, I know what it feels like. It sucks. What I'm saying is that Zynga is aware of their past and is moving towards less copy and more creativity. I think their actually released products in the last 6 months are a testament to that. Dream Zoo is a great example of coming into a genre, "Zyngafying" it, and coming out with a hit product that's better than the competition. They even built new tech that they've open sourced and shared with the Cocos2d community. But no one talks about that because it's easier to hate Zynga than it is to make a reasoned discussion about them.
molmalo 15y ago
I don't know. It's like saying that all those *ville are copies of Sim City. Maxis's games were centered on simulation, while this new generation of games are targeted to a much more casual gamer. And it's bad when a Giant tries to crush a little studio, copying their games, while at the same time, suing others for doing the exact same thing. (Vostu)
- Uchikoma 15y ago
  According to some, Zygna is not targeting casual gamers but casual gamblers (same motivations, same demographic) There was a discussion about that on HN some days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3453040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3453040
  - teej 15y ago
    > According to some According to a marketing guy from Betable, a real-money gambling platform with a vested interest in making you think exactly that.
  - intended 15y ago
    I think they are. WoW, Farmville, all use a skinnerian model - different reward types on variable, regular and random schedules designed to make sure that you get that next dopamine buzz just right in time. leastI don't doubt that some of these games need someone to take a look into them. Likely we need legislation such as that which covers the gambling industry or rules such as those that cover the slot machine industry. I know the regulation idea may not be popular here though (I dislike it). Yet we agree that the gambling industry needs checks and balances, in which case Zynga does too (or at the very least, someone to check) Edit: For clarity. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Also: If I am getting downvoted, I'd love to know why people disagree with me.
    - nknight 15y ago
      Well, the lumping together of WoW and Farmville is pretty bizarre and makes me think you have no idea what these games are actually like. Reminds me of Tipper Gore. Then you go on to say "we agree the gambling industry needs checks and balances", which is pretty damned presumptuous. Have you completely failed to notice the strong libertarian bent of HN? In many ways, I'm practically a socialist, but I cringe outwardly at the thought that government should regulate the behavior of consenting adults. Yes, gambling can be seriously problematic for some people and their families/loved ones, and I'm not against government efforts to educate people and help treat problem gamblers, nor am I against things like requiring casinos to post odds, but go any further and you quickly get way outside my comfort zone. Think of drugs and take a guess at how many people on HN actually support the "war on drugs". The number people who agree with special regulation of gambling is probably quite similar, and quite small.
deleted 15y ago
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gabaix 15y ago
Nimblebit team is 3 people, Zynga is 2,800 strong. There's a disadvantage that makes the ripoff harder to fight. Plus, Zynga sues when they think they get copied (http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/16/war-zynga-sues-the-hell-out-of-brazilian-clone-vostu/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/16/war-zynga-sues-the-hell-out...). There's a good chance that Nimblebit won't have enough money to fight back.
gavanwoolery 15y ago
Maybe it is "wrong," maybe it isn't. But it still goes to prove that Zynga is still the shit-eating company we have always known it to be (no disrespect to most of the employees, who probably want to make fun, original games against the will of their superiors). Zynga has boatloads of cash, and yet it can't afford to innovate just a little bit? Pathetic.
- tatsuke95 15y ago
  >no disrespect to most of the employees, who probably want to make fun, original games against the will of their superiors Then they should get out there and make original games. They're as much to blame as anyone. Sarah Lacy's article yesterday mentioned Zynga as one of the sexy places to work in SV. People want to work there, despite the shady practices. We have this tendency to act like the little guy has no blame in things like this, whether it's war or the financial crisis or making bad social games. Like there's some line drawn between evil corporate and good little employees. Guess what? If the developers aren't going there and punching the clock every day, these games aren't getting made.
Splines 15y ago
I know it was just an example, but Tiny Tower is nothing like Sim Tower. Sim Tower is an elevator/people flow simulation. It's also much more fun than Tiny Tower.
- adgar 15y ago
  Thanks for posting this - I was having enough nostalgia for Sim Tower that I started looking around for this Tiny Tower. Unfortunately there's almost no information from the developer other than the iTunes download page, so I put it off. Now I can properly procrastinate by figuring out how on earth to run Sim Tower on a 3-month-old Mac. Thanks again!
  - joshu 15y ago
    VMware + windows can do it. Also look for yoot tower, the sequel.
    - joshu 15y ago
      Oh god yoot tower runs on iPad. Downloaded in the interest of science.
  - ry0ohki 15y ago
    That's why I was really disappointed in Tiny Tower, really was hoping it was a new implementation of Sim Tower instead of a Farmville set in skyscrapers.
nknight 15y ago
> You could argue Tiny Tower ripped off Sim Tower etc. About the only thing Tiny Tower and SimTower have in common is the word "Tower".
- joejohnson 15y ago
  Hmmm, that and they are also both games which simulate running a tower as a business.
kylebrown 15y ago
This isn't giants standing on the shoulders of giants, but giants stepping on (squashing) littler people.

by wdewind 15y ago

tedivm 15y ago

I'd agree with you if they were just similar, but the mechanics are the exact same- every aspect of it. There's a difference between "standing on the shoulders of giants" and flat out cloning something- with the first you take an idea, improve it, and make it your own.

tobtoh 15y ago
You could similarly argue that Tiny Towers is virtually identical to Farmville, except with a different skin applied. All involve mindless clicking, items (shops/services instead of crops) with variable 'build' times. They have the worthless cash and 'premium' cash (in-app purchases). Tiny Towers has very little game mechanics innovation over Farmville (besides maybe that elevator).
- tedivm 15y ago
  By that logic there is only one first person shooter.
  - pork 15y ago
    Modern FPS games have detailed stories, considerable original acting and dialog (motion and voice capture), and incredibly detailed artwork. So your analogy doesn't really hold.
    - tedivm 15y ago
      Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, but I disagree that the analogy doesn't hold. What tobtoh described is a genre- it may be a shitty one, but it's still simply a genre. There are different game mechanics, goals, art work and so on- it's just not super complex. Ignoring the differences is like ignoring the acting, dialog and artwork in a first person shooter because they're all just grabbing weapons, running around, and hitting the shoot button.
- cyanbane 15y ago
  I'm surprised the makers of Zelda haven't sued Bethesda for Skyrim.
- intended 15y ago
  I would have to disagree very strongly here. Farmville in its current iteration is designed to involve your facebook freinds at every level. Its reward schedule is blatantly designed to encourage social sharing - basically making players skinner boxes for other players. Tiny tower on the other hand can be played in entirely single player fashion, without really being bothered by "Oh you need 3 paint flecks to paint window X! 5 windows, 2 chairs, 4 cuboards, 2 cashiers left to open store! Ask your friends for parts" Farmville is far more diabolical than tiny tower. Its obvious the tiny tower guys are more into making a game, while farmville is just plain sinister.

tensor 15y ago

Standing on the shoulders of giants generally means you evolve or build upon your predecessor. I haven't played either game, but this looks to be a plain reimplementation of the game right down to the mechanics with little or no change. Based on other similar news stories in the past, it seems like this is Zynga's general business plan. While it appears profitable and is legal, it's hardly a laudable practice.

teej 15y ago
I could do a screen-for-screen comparison of Battlefield 3 and Modern Warfare 3 and you would have a hard time telling them apart. Each actually has distinct gameplay that sets it apart. I think it's a stretch to say there's clearly "little or no change" from 4 cherry-picked screenshots. Zynga has actually had an improving track record in the last 6 months with Adventure World, Hidden Chronicles and Dream Zoo. They're still sticking to "hit" genres, but they have been pushing out of cloneville and taking more risks.
- mbrzuzy 15y ago
  I see where you're coming from but I'd have to disagree. Battlefield and Call of Duty are both in a pretty much generic first person shooter genre. The game made by Nimblebit looks like a fairly specific and deliberate Sim type game designed in a specific way for mobile devices. I think the screenshots chosen are good enough to come to the conclusion that it's a clone.
  - teej 15y ago
    I'm not denying that it's a clone. I'm saying that Zynga's "ripoffs" have gone from literal feature-for-feature clones to progressively more "innovative" titles in the last 5 years. Back in 2007, my game was the second game Zynga ever copied. I've been there, I know what it feels like. It sucks. What I'm saying is that Zynga is aware of their past and is moving towards less copy and more creativity. I think their actually released products in the last 6 months are a testament to that. Dream Zoo is a great example of coming into a genre, "Zyngafying" it, and coming out with a hit product that's better than the competition. They even built new tech that they've open sourced and shared with the Cocos2d community. But no one talks about that because it's easier to hate Zynga than it is to make a reasoned discussion about them.

molmalo 15y ago

I don't know. It's like saying that all those *ville are copies of Sim City. Maxis's games were centered on simulation, while this new generation of games are targeted to a much more casual gamer. And it's bad when a Giant tries to crush a little studio, copying their games, while at the same time, suing others for doing the exact same thing. (Vostu)

Uchikoma 15y ago
According to some, Zygna is not targeting casual gamers but casual gamblers (same motivations, same demographic) There was a discussion about that on HN some days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3453040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3453040
- teej 15y ago
  > According to some According to a marketing guy from Betable, a real-money gambling platform with a vested interest in making you think exactly that.
- intended 15y ago
  I think they are. WoW, Farmville, all use a skinnerian model - different reward types on variable, regular and random schedules designed to make sure that you get that next dopamine buzz just right in time. leastI don't doubt that some of these games need someone to take a look into them. Likely we need legislation such as that which covers the gambling industry or rules such as those that cover the slot machine industry. I know the regulation idea may not be popular here though (I dislike it). Yet we agree that the gambling industry needs checks and balances, in which case Zynga does too (or at the very least, someone to check) Edit: For clarity. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Also: If I am getting downvoted, I'd love to know why people disagree with me.
  - nknight 15y ago
    Well, the lumping together of WoW and Farmville is pretty bizarre and makes me think you have no idea what these games are actually like. Reminds me of Tipper Gore. Then you go on to say "we agree the gambling industry needs checks and balances", which is pretty damned presumptuous. Have you completely failed to notice the strong libertarian bent of HN? In many ways, I'm practically a socialist, but I cringe outwardly at the thought that government should regulate the behavior of consenting adults. Yes, gambling can be seriously problematic for some people and their families/loved ones, and I'm not against government efforts to educate people and help treat problem gamblers, nor am I against things like requiring casinos to post odds, but go any further and you quickly get way outside my comfort zone. Think of drugs and take a guess at how many people on HN actually support the "war on drugs". The number people who agree with special regulation of gambling is probably quite similar, and quite small.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

gabaix 15y ago

Nimblebit team is 3 people, Zynga is 2,800 strong. There's a disadvantage that makes the ripoff harder to fight. Plus, Zynga sues when they think they get copied (http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/16/war-zynga-sues-the-hell-out-of-brazilian-clone-vostu/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/16/war-zynga-sues-the-hell-out...). There's a good chance that Nimblebit won't have enough money to fight back.

gavanwoolery 15y ago

Maybe it is "wrong," maybe it isn't. But it still goes to prove that Zynga is still the shit-eating company we have always known it to be (no disrespect to most of the employees, who probably want to make fun, original games against the will of their superiors). Zynga has boatloads of cash, and yet it can't afford to innovate just a little bit? Pathetic.

tatsuke95 15y ago
>no disrespect to most of the employees, who probably want to make fun, original games against the will of their superiors Then they should get out there and make original games. They're as much to blame as anyone. Sarah Lacy's article yesterday mentioned Zynga as one of the sexy places to work in SV. People want to work there, despite the shady practices. We have this tendency to act like the little guy has no blame in things like this, whether it's war or the financial crisis or making bad social games. Like there's some line drawn between evil corporate and good little employees. Guess what? If the developers aren't going there and punching the clock every day, these games aren't getting made.

Splines 15y ago

I know it was just an example, but Tiny Tower is nothing like Sim Tower. Sim Tower is an elevator/people flow simulation. It's also much more fun than Tiny Tower.

adgar 15y ago
Thanks for posting this - I was having enough nostalgia for Sim Tower that I started looking around for this Tiny Tower. Unfortunately there's almost no information from the developer other than the iTunes download page, so I put it off. Now I can properly procrastinate by figuring out how on earth to run Sim Tower on a 3-month-old Mac. Thanks again!
- joshu 15y ago
  VMware + windows can do it. Also look for yoot tower, the sequel.
  - joshu 15y ago
    Oh god yoot tower runs on iPad. Downloaded in the interest of science.
- ry0ohki 15y ago
  That's why I was really disappointed in Tiny Tower, really was hoping it was a new implementation of Sim Tower instead of a Farmville set in skyscrapers.

nknight 15y ago

> You could argue Tiny Tower ripped off Sim Tower etc. About the only thing Tiny Tower and SimTower have in common is the word "Tower".

joejohnson 15y ago
Hmmm, that and they are also both games which simulate running a tower as a business.

kylebrown 15y ago

This isn't giants standing on the shoulders of giants, but giants stepping on (squashing) littler people.