4 ms·

This is interesting... but I can't help but think how much better it might be if instead of a video background just had a simpler e-ink display for indicating

by sj4nz 4y ago

This is interesting... but I can't help but think how much better it might be if instead of a video background just had a simpler e-ink display for indicating what the transparent key caps were for. The animation/videos are very distracting. I never liked the Apple TouchBar or anything that required "active" attention away from the main screen.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
shaunsingh0207 4y ago
E-ink is extremely expensive, especially at the size of a keyboard like that. Memory LCD would be more practical, but at that point the lcd costs the same and offers more power for those who want it. There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black except for the legends, probably
- sho_hn 4y ago
  True dat. I recently made this for my home, as a once-a-day automatic newspaper deco thingie (ticking all the latest hype boxes: wrote a custom Rust driver for the EPD controller, and it's now also using the ChatGPT API to trim and style-transfer articles and headlines -- this and also various layout/typography improvements not yet in that album): https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd $400+shipping for the display panel (a competitive price from the shop). Even at volume (which an enthusiast keyboard won't be) it's still very expensive.
  - edu115 4y ago
    Can you let me know where you sourced the screen?
    - sho_hn 4y ago
      See my reply to your sibling :-)
  - vopi 4y ago
    I was recently messing around with a very small eink display (and used it to display HN posts somewhat similar in concept to you). Out of curiosity, what display is that/where did you source it from?
    - sho_hn 4y ago
      It's a 13.3" 1600x1200 panel made by E Ink, from the Carta product line also used in Kindles et all, the ED133UT2. I bought it via Waveshare together with a little driver board featuring the ITE IT8951 controller: https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper-1/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper-1/... The ED133UT2 is also available from E Ink directly and from other shops, but I haven't seen a significantly better price. There are also some other boards with the same controller around. An alternative to using the IT8951 is to hook the display up to an MCU with an adapter board for the flex cable directly and then drive the waveforms from the MCU, this is more complicated however and a little controller talking SPI is quite nice to have. There's also a 10.3" with an even higher resolution that is very nice for various applications.
      - vopi 4y ago
        Ahh thanks!
  - shaunsingh0207 4y ago
    Saw your project a few days back, absolutely loved it! Same-ish setup here, a massive e-ink screen hooked up to a controller and pine64 board. I hung it up next to my bed, displays my most important emails/weather/health-notifs etc., everything I need in the morning to get up and running The cost of the panel makes me cry but there's nothing like e-ink :)
  - throwwwaway69 4y ago
    Very cool - I've been researching something nearly identical and it's nice to see your implementation of it. Unfortunately I'm not sure I want this bad enough for the $500 in hardware costs.
  - muyuu 4y ago
    yea it's a shame that e-ink screens larger than 6in or so get so much more expensive, they're not practical for low-cost appliances and toys
- jrockway 4y ago
  Yup. TFT LCDs are in everything because they are so cheap, and they make designers who are used to designing for computers feel less constrained. I have indoor and outdoor air quality sensors in my apartment; the outdoor air quality monitor is an LCD and the indoor one is e-ink. I kind of like the LCD better, but have to use a feature to turn off the screen at night so it's not illuminating the entire room with its backlight. The e-ink doesn't emit light, but it also doesn't update as frequently, so it's often displaying information that's out of date. Because of the various pros and cons, neither technology seems like a "win" over the other; the product designer has to pick one and hope the market agrees. LCDs get the nudge because of cost, though.
- dogma1138 4y ago
  Yet E-ink is cheap enough for price tags at big box stores…?
  - shaunsingh0207 4y ago
    E-ink gets exponentially more expensive with size, and an e-ink panel in this keyboard would have to have a fairly decent resolution and refresh rate, whereas the price tags are usually 1-bit color, low res, and barely have to refresh
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    My understanding is that the price of the displays is largely dependent on the size of the screen due to manufacturing techniques. I don't know the specifics unfortunately.
- mihaaly 4y ago
  > There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black Except perhaps product designers wanting to make a flashy product that draws attention all the time, 24/7, pushing through '''features''' that leverage (force) full screen animations in the driver software. I am bitter, yes, I met too many excellent hardware ruined by stupid, oversized, look-before-function attitude software. Making it grand and flashy (eventually overcomplicated and ugly) not because it is useful but because they can.
ar9av 4y ago
I think it'd be much better if they just had a simple e-ink display for showing what the transparent key caps are for. That way, you don't have to deal with any distracting animations or videos, and you can just focus on getting your work done. And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We need interfaces that are designed to help us be more productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.
dheera 4y ago
I was thinking e-Ink too, it would allow the keyboard to be made wireless and have a respectable battery life of at least a week or two if not much longer.
jonnycomputer 4y ago
E-ink was the very first thing I thought of. Less power use, less glare, less distraction. Heck, I have the Logitech K800 Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and it hurts my eyes when the room is not brightly lit (unlike my Mac Book Pro's backlit keyboard which does it right).
layer8 4y ago
I wonder about the parallax effect, since the display is a significant distance from the key tops. You can kinda see it in the short typing demonstration a third down the page. Though I never liked self-illuminating keyboards anyway.
coffeebeqn 4y ago
Yeah I’m not sure what the target audience is. I just bought a nice keyboard so I’m in the right market but I don’t really look at the key caps nor do I feel the need to have contextual buttons
throwaway675309 4y ago
I mean they're obviously going to make it so that you can set up the backgrounds however you want, and even if they didn't it would be a simple software update to make it so you can disable animations so I don't really think that that's a negative.

by sj4nz 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

shaunsingh0207 4y ago

E-ink is extremely expensive, especially at the size of a keyboard like that. Memory LCD would be more practical, but at that point the lcd costs the same and offers more power for those who want it. There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black except for the legends, probably

sho_hn 4y ago
True dat. I recently made this for my home, as a once-a-day automatic newspaper deco thingie (ticking all the latest hype boxes: wrote a custom Rust driver for the EPD controller, and it's now also using the ChatGPT API to trim and style-transfer articles and headlines -- this and also various layout/typography improvements not yet in that album): https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd $400+shipping for the display panel (a competitive price from the shop). Even at volume (which an enthusiast keyboard won't be) it's still very expensive.
- edu115 4y ago
  Can you let me know where you sourced the screen?
  - sho_hn 4y ago
    See my reply to your sibling :-)
- vopi 4y ago
  I was recently messing around with a very small eink display (and used it to display HN posts somewhat similar in concept to you). Out of curiosity, what display is that/where did you source it from?
  - sho_hn 4y ago
    It's a 13.3" 1600x1200 panel made by E Ink, from the Carta product line also used in Kindles et all, the ED133UT2. I bought it via Waveshare together with a little driver board featuring the ITE IT8951 controller: https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper-1/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper-1/... The ED133UT2 is also available from E Ink directly and from other shops, but I haven't seen a significantly better price. There are also some other boards with the same controller around. An alternative to using the IT8951 is to hook the display up to an MCU with an adapter board for the flex cable directly and then drive the waveforms from the MCU, this is more complicated however and a little controller talking SPI is quite nice to have. There's also a 10.3" with an even higher resolution that is very nice for various applications.
    - vopi 4y ago
      Ahh thanks!
- shaunsingh0207 4y ago
  Saw your project a few days back, absolutely loved it! Same-ish setup here, a massive e-ink screen hooked up to a controller and pine64 board. I hung it up next to my bed, displays my most important emails/weather/health-notifs etc., everything I need in the morning to get up and running The cost of the panel makes me cry but there's nothing like e-ink :)
- throwwwaway69 4y ago
  Very cool - I've been researching something nearly identical and it's nice to see your implementation of it. Unfortunately I'm not sure I want this bad enough for the $500 in hardware costs.
- muyuu 4y ago
  yea it's a shame that e-ink screens larger than 6in or so get so much more expensive, they're not practical for low-cost appliances and toys
jrockway 4y ago
Yup. TFT LCDs are in everything because they are so cheap, and they make designers who are used to designing for computers feel less constrained. I have indoor and outdoor air quality sensors in my apartment; the outdoor air quality monitor is an LCD and the indoor one is e-ink. I kind of like the LCD better, but have to use a feature to turn off the screen at night so it's not illuminating the entire room with its backlight. The e-ink doesn't emit light, but it also doesn't update as frequently, so it's often displaying information that's out of date. Because of the various pros and cons, neither technology seems like a "win" over the other; the product designer has to pick one and hope the market agrees. LCDs get the nudge because of cost, though.
dogma1138 4y ago
Yet E-ink is cheap enough for price tags at big box stores…?
- shaunsingh0207 4y ago
  E-ink gets exponentially more expensive with size, and an e-ink panel in this keyboard would have to have a fairly decent resolution and refresh rate, whereas the price tags are usually 1-bit color, low res, and barely have to refresh
- yurishimo 4y ago
  My understanding is that the price of the displays is largely dependent on the size of the screen due to manufacturing techniques. I don't know the specifics unfortunately.
mihaaly 4y ago
> There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen black Except perhaps product designers wanting to make a flashy product that draws attention all the time, 24/7, pushing through '''features''' that leverage (force) full screen animations in the driver software. I am bitter, yes, I met too many excellent hardware ruined by stupid, oversized, look-before-function attitude software. Making it grand and flashy (eventually overcomplicated and ugly) not because it is useful but because they can.

ar9av 4y ago

I think it'd be much better if they just had a simple e-ink display for showing what the transparent key caps are for. That way, you don't have to deal with any distracting animations or videos, and you can just focus on getting your work done. And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We need interfaces that are designed to help us be more productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.

dheera 4y ago

I was thinking e-Ink too, it would allow the keyboard to be made wireless and have a respectable battery life of at least a week or two if not much longer.

jonnycomputer 4y ago

E-ink was the very first thing I thought of. Less power use, less glare, less distraction. Heck, I have the Logitech K800 Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and it hurts my eyes when the room is not brightly lit (unlike my Mac Book Pro's backlit keyboard which does it right).

layer8 4y ago

I wonder about the parallax effect, since the display is a significant distance from the key tops. You can kinda see it in the short typing demonstration a third down the page. Though I never liked self-illuminating keyboards anyway.

coffeebeqn 4y ago

Yeah I’m not sure what the target audience is. I just bought a nice keyboard so I’m in the right market but I don’t really look at the key caps nor do I feel the need to have contextual buttons

throwaway675309 4y ago

I mean they're obviously going to make it so that you can set up the backgrounds however you want, and even if they didn't it would be a simple software update to make it so you can disable animations so I don't really think that that's a negative.