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A product is always a combination of features. That’s kind of the definition of a product. Do you also think Tesla should sell its battery to Ford? Is it “tyi

A product is always a combination of features. That’s kind of the definition of a product. Do you also think Tesla should sell its battery to Ford? Is it “tying” when Nintendo doesn’t let you run “PlaystationOS” on a Nintendo Switch? When Jobs came back and introduced the iMac, Apple wasn’t exactly a behemoth in 1997. Enough users chose using their own free will to buy an integrated product (with a shitty operating system) to get Apple back to profitability. Even in 2001, when Apple introduced the iPod, Apple was going back and forth between profitability and loss. By 2003, enough users found value in the integration between iPods and iTunes and the Music Store to choose a more expensive integrated product. ios would be a worse user experience (on worse hardware) if it was running on Samsung phones. Users have a choice, they can buy an Android device with slower hardware, less updates, and a none integrated ecosystem for less money. 87% of users in the world make that choice. > Which is the same thing that happened to Intel when their process fell behind, because their designers were stuck with it. So Intel learned their lesson and now Arc is on TSMC and Intel is starting to fab for third parties. Wow, all they have to do is getter better, I’m sure they never thought about that… And the third party they are fabbing for is MediaTek and it’s based on a 22nm process - which was stated of the art in 2012. > Right before Mac switched to Intel, the uncompetitiveness of PowerPC processors was hurting them. By 2011, if Apple had completely killed the Mac, it would have still been more profitable than any computer company. Fast forward to today, and the Mac only makes up about 10% of their revenue.

AnthonyMouse 4y ago
> A product is always a combination of features. That’s kind of the definition of a product. So if your product is flour or plate glass... ? Many products are combinations of things. A simple bench is lumber and screws and paint. But lumber and screws and paint are all widely available commodities. Someone who sells benches doesn't have to sell screws for them to be available in the market. They may not even manufacture the screws, so anyone who wants them can buy them from the same place they did. When it becomes tying is when there is any part of your product that customers might want to buy separately, but nobody else makes it, so it isn't available separately, from anyone. You can only get it tied to the other parts. That's tying. > Do you also think Tesla should sell its battery to Ford? I think Telsa would be happy to sell batteries to Ford. They'd build another battery factory and make a lot of money. Do you think Tesla should be able to prohibit anyone from taking the battery out of a Tesla and using it in some other car or for some other purpose? > Is it “tying” when Nintendo doesn’t let you run “PlaystationOS” on a Nintendo Switch? Obviously. What makes you think that is some kind of controversial result? Anybody who wants to should be able to install iOS on their XBOX. > When Jobs came back and introduced the iMac, Apple wasn’t exactly a behemoth in 1997. Enough users chose using their own free will to buy an integrated product (with a shitty operating system) to get Apple back to profitability. Buying an integrated product isn't the same thing as buying a product because it's integrated. By definition if they want any of the parts that isn't available separately, they have to buy the whole thing. And as shitty as MacOS Classic was, it wasn't as shitty as Windows ME. > ios would be a worse user experience (on worse hardware) if it was running on Samsung phones. Not compared to the same Samsung phone running Android, presumably. > Wow, all they have to do is getter better, I’m sure they never thought about that... You asked what their competitive advantage would be. For years it was superior process. It's not physically impossible for them to do that again. We just don't know if they will yet. > And the third party they are fabbing for is MediaTek and it’s based on a 22nm process - which was stated of the art in 2012. Because their problem was caused by their existing process being a mess. They have to be able to do state of the art in volume before they can sell it to somebody else. The more significant development was Arc on TSMC. > By 2011, if Apple had completely killed the Mac, it would have still been more profitable than any computer company. Fast forward to today, and the Mac only makes up about 10% of their revenue. How does that affect the state of their integrated product just before the Intel switch when they didn't have a competitive PowerPC processor?
- scarface74 4y ago
  > But lumber and screws and paint are all widely available commodities And phones using ARM chips are sold by hundreds of manufactures with different feature sets. > Do you think Tesla should be able to prohibit anyone from taking the battery out of a Tesla and using it in some other car or for some other purpose? If you can take an iOS image you download to your computer (and you can with iTunes) and make it work without Apple custom hardware go for it. Or do you think that Apple should be forced to support third party hardware? What if I want to run Teslas infotainment on my Honda civic? Should Tesla be forced to do it? > Buying an integrated product isn't the same thing as buying a product because it's integrated. By definition if they want any of the parts that isn't available separately, they have to buy the whole thing. So again should Apple have been forced to make the iMac modular enough so you could rip out the PPC and put in an x86 chip so you could run Windows because you preferred Windows, but you like the Bondi Blue iMac? Should Apple be forced to sell their custom chips to other manufacturers? What if I just want the T1 security chip in my Android Blu R1 HD I bought from Amazon, should Apple be forced to sell it to you separately? > And as shitty as MacOS Classic was, it wasn't as shitty as Windows ME Did you ever deal with manually allocating memory for applications? The cooperative multitasking that caused all applications to stop when you clicked on a menu? > How does that affect the state of their integrated product just before the Intel switch when they didn't have a competitive PowerPC processor? The PPC was behind x86 from the time Jobs came back until 2005, yet it still sold well enough to represent half of Apple’s revenue.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
    > And phones using ARM chips are sold by hundreds of manufactures with different feature sets. You were just making the argument that the hardware from Samsung et al isn't as good. > If you can take an iOS image you download to your computer (and you can with iTunes) and make it work without Apple custom hardware go for it. Or do you think that Apple should be forced to support third party hardware? It's not a question of forcing them to. Suppose Samsung was willing to do the work to get iOS running on their devices. Apple not only won't help, they'll sue them, to keep the OS tied to their own hardware. > What if I want to run Teslas infotainment on my Honda civic? Should Tesla be forced to do it? They shouldn't interfere with your attempt. > Should Apple be forced to sell their custom chips to other manufacturers? What if I just want the T1 security chip in my Android Blu R1 HD I bought from Amazon, should Apple be forced to sell it to you separately? Why not? If they're the only supplier of something then they should sell it to anyone who wants to buy it. > Did you ever deal with manually allocating memory for applications? The cooperative multitasking that caused all applications to stop when you clicked on a menu? Did you ever deal with the infamous instability of DOS-based Windows, complete with a total lack of security as the biggest target for viruses because of the larger user base? > The PPC was behind x86 from the time Jobs came back until 2005, yet it still sold well enough to represent half of Apple’s revenue. 2005 was pre-iPhone, so of course it was a large percentage of their revenue. But their total revenue in 2004 was lower than it was in 1996 -- and in 1996 there wasn't even an iPod.

AnthonyMouse 4y ago

> A product is always a combination of features. That’s kind of the definition of a product. So if your product is flour or plate glass... ? Many products are combinations of things. A simple bench is lumber and screws and paint. But lumber and screws and paint are all widely available commodities. Someone who sells benches doesn't have to sell screws for them to be available in the market. They may not even manufacture the screws, so anyone who wants them can buy them from the same place they did. When it becomes tying is when there is any part of your product that customers might want to buy separately, but nobody else makes it, so it isn't available separately, from anyone. You can only get it tied to the other parts. That's tying. > Do you also think Tesla should sell its battery to Ford? I think Telsa would be happy to sell batteries to Ford. They'd build another battery factory and make a lot of money. Do you think Tesla should be able to prohibit anyone from taking the battery out of a Tesla and using it in some other car or for some other purpose? > Is it “tying” when Nintendo doesn’t let you run “PlaystationOS” on a Nintendo Switch? Obviously. What makes you think that is some kind of controversial result? Anybody who wants to should be able to install iOS on their XBOX. > When Jobs came back and introduced the iMac, Apple wasn’t exactly a behemoth in 1997. Enough users chose using their own free will to buy an integrated product (with a shitty operating system) to get Apple back to profitability. Buying an integrated product isn't the same thing as buying a product because it's integrated. By definition if they want any of the parts that isn't available separately, they have to buy the whole thing. And as shitty as MacOS Classic was, it wasn't as shitty as Windows ME. > ios would be a worse user experience (on worse hardware) if it was running on Samsung phones. Not compared to the same Samsung phone running Android, presumably. > Wow, all they have to do is getter better, I’m sure they never thought about that... You asked what their competitive advantage would be. For years it was superior process. It's not physically impossible for them to do that again. We just don't know if they will yet. > And the third party they are fabbing for is MediaTek and it’s based on a 22nm process - which was stated of the art in 2012. Because their problem was caused by their existing process being a mess. They have to be able to do state of the art in volume before they can sell it to somebody else. The more significant development was Arc on TSMC. > By 2011, if Apple had completely killed the Mac, it would have still been more profitable than any computer company. Fast forward to today, and the Mac only makes up about 10% of their revenue. How does that affect the state of their integrated product just before the Intel switch when they didn't have a competitive PowerPC processor?

scarface74 4y ago
> But lumber and screws and paint are all widely available commodities And phones using ARM chips are sold by hundreds of manufactures with different feature sets. > Do you think Tesla should be able to prohibit anyone from taking the battery out of a Tesla and using it in some other car or for some other purpose? If you can take an iOS image you download to your computer (and you can with iTunes) and make it work without Apple custom hardware go for it. Or do you think that Apple should be forced to support third party hardware? What if I want to run Teslas infotainment on my Honda civic? Should Tesla be forced to do it? > Buying an integrated product isn't the same thing as buying a product because it's integrated. By definition if they want any of the parts that isn't available separately, they have to buy the whole thing. So again should Apple have been forced to make the iMac modular enough so you could rip out the PPC and put in an x86 chip so you could run Windows because you preferred Windows, but you like the Bondi Blue iMac? Should Apple be forced to sell their custom chips to other manufacturers? What if I just want the T1 security chip in my Android Blu R1 HD I bought from Amazon, should Apple be forced to sell it to you separately? > And as shitty as MacOS Classic was, it wasn't as shitty as Windows ME Did you ever deal with manually allocating memory for applications? The cooperative multitasking that caused all applications to stop when you clicked on a menu? > How does that affect the state of their integrated product just before the Intel switch when they didn't have a competitive PowerPC processor? The PPC was behind x86 from the time Jobs came back until 2005, yet it still sold well enough to represent half of Apple’s revenue.
- AnthonyMouse 4y ago
  > And phones using ARM chips are sold by hundreds of manufactures with different feature sets. You were just making the argument that the hardware from Samsung et al isn't as good. > If you can take an iOS image you download to your computer (and you can with iTunes) and make it work without Apple custom hardware go for it. Or do you think that Apple should be forced to support third party hardware? It's not a question of forcing them to. Suppose Samsung was willing to do the work to get iOS running on their devices. Apple not only won't help, they'll sue them, to keep the OS tied to their own hardware. > What if I want to run Teslas infotainment on my Honda civic? Should Tesla be forced to do it? They shouldn't interfere with your attempt. > Should Apple be forced to sell their custom chips to other manufacturers? What if I just want the T1 security chip in my Android Blu R1 HD I bought from Amazon, should Apple be forced to sell it to you separately? Why not? If they're the only supplier of something then they should sell it to anyone who wants to buy it. > Did you ever deal with manually allocating memory for applications? The cooperative multitasking that caused all applications to stop when you clicked on a menu? Did you ever deal with the infamous instability of DOS-based Windows, complete with a total lack of security as the biggest target for viruses because of the larger user base? > The PPC was behind x86 from the time Jobs came back until 2005, yet it still sold well enough to represent half of Apple’s revenue. 2005 was pre-iPhone, so of course it was a large percentage of their revenue. But their total revenue in 2004 was lower than it was in 1996 -- and in 1996 there wasn't even an iPod.