4 ms·

What is depressing about it?

JohnFen 4y ago
Consolidation of a vibrant industry to just a handful of major corporations is a real loss, in my opinion. It's depressing in part because it makes avoiding those corporations much more difficult or impossible, because it makes the industry less vibrant and responsive, and because it locks a lot of talented people out. It's also more than a little dystopian as the corporate stranglehold over all of us tightens just a bit more.
- schrodinger 4y ago
  I don't think that's exactly what the article is stating. It'd be really hard for an upstart to build a formidable competitor to AWS for example, but that just means that the next breakthroughs will be less about infrastructure and more about applications (not apps, but different use cases). "Innovation, uh, finds a way."
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Perhaps I was misled by the article analogizing to the auto industry. The auto industry is a great example of exactly what I fear is the future of of the software industry.
    - jen20 4y ago
      I'm not sure sure the auto analogy is very good, either. Today there is the choice of a large variety of safe, efficient and performant car models from insanely low prices (once inflation is taken into account), and soon there will be a similar range of choice in EVs. Generally speaking, quality is vastly higher than it has been in most lifetimes too - when did you last see a new car with rust on it, for example? (A few brands, notably Mercedes Benz, produce far worse products than they did in the 90s, but they are the exception). If a wide choice of quality products is the future of the software industry, I'd welcome that, since it certainly is not the state of it today.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        I am certainly not saying there aren't some advantages to an oligopoly, as the auto industry illustrates. But I do think the disadvantages exceed the advantages by a very large margin, even in the auto industry. For instance, there are aspects of new cars that are ubiquitous and I find so objectionable that they prevent me from buying one, probably ever. If the market were more vibrant, I suspect that I'd have real options aside from "I can't have a newer car". Also, oligopolies don't automatically mean that the products are improved. Usually, it's just the opposite.
        jen20 4y ago
        The auto industry isn’t really an oligopoly though. Even if you restrict to “manufactured in the US” there are more options now than there were 30 years ago _because_ the three big manufactures were making trash, and competition did the job it was supposed to.
        JohnFen 4y ago
        > there are more options now than there were 30 years ago I suppose how true this is depends on what sorts of options you're looking for. The number of acceptable cars on the market now, according to my criteria, is lower than it has ever been.
- pilarphosol 4y ago
  This. And VC doesn’t help much, because as soon as you take the money you are in a race to become the next overpowered, uninspiring behemoth, only with less resources and a low chance of a real payoff.
- Juliate 4y ago
  Consolidation may not be inevitable, but it did happen on so many previous innovation waves (steam, electricity, telegraph, telephone, automobile, aviation beginnings were full of small, growing, competitive ideas and ventures too). It comes with industrialisation and commodification and norms and regulation, so it's not all bad either as it consolidates/improves the general quality and availability. (cue Dire Straits' Telegraph Road)
- sbierwagen 4y ago
  Well, if you want to take the traditionally Marxist position, all that competition results in duplicate work. During the golden age of the workstation, Sun, Silicon Graphics, DEC, HP, NeXT and IBM all made workstations with separate, incompatible operating systems and CPUs. In the end, all those vendors died, and that effort was entirely wasted. It would have been much more efficient if the government had designated a single workstation vendor from the beginning, and denied CPU purchasing licenses to anyone who wanted to compete with them.
  - 7thaccount 4y ago
    Efficient? Maybe. But without competition of any kind, there's a possibility we'd still be using DOS lol. There can still be advancements of course under such a system, but I figure the progress would be a lot slower. On the flip side, I can almost see part of your argument. The weather is a perfect example of your argument. The US government funds all the weather models out there, but due to lobbying, they're not allowed to actually have a website that tells us the weather. Instead we get like 5 crappy ad-infested sites that are terrible to use and just make a few people rich. It's insane.
    - sbierwagen 4y ago
      >but due to lobbying, they're not allowed to actually have a website that tells us the weather. Really? Because weather.gov has showing forecasts since 1995. You can view SF here: https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=37.78&textField2=-122.42 https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=37.78&t...
      - 7thaccount 4y ago
        There is some law that prevents the radar piece. I need to see if I can find that.
  - andrewjl 4y ago
    > It would have been much more efficient if the government had designated a single workstation vendor from the beginning, and denied CPU purchasing licenses to anyone who wanted to compete with them. How would it be more efficient without a way to know if the end result is any good?

Consolidation of a vibrant industry to just a handful of major corporations is a real loss, in my opinion. It's depressing in part because it makes avoiding those corporations much more difficult or impossible, because it makes the industry less vibrant and responsive, and because it locks a lot of talented people out. It's also more than a little dystopian as the corporate stranglehold over all of us tightens just a bit more.

schrodinger 4y ago
I don't think that's exactly what the article is stating. It'd be really hard for an upstart to build a formidable competitor to AWS for example, but that just means that the next breakthroughs will be less about infrastructure and more about applications (not apps, but different use cases). "Innovation, uh, finds a way."
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Perhaps I was misled by the article analogizing to the auto industry. The auto industry is a great example of exactly what I fear is the future of of the software industry.
  - jen20 4y ago
    I'm not sure sure the auto analogy is very good, either. Today there is the choice of a large variety of safe, efficient and performant car models from insanely low prices (once inflation is taken into account), and soon there will be a similar range of choice in EVs. Generally speaking, quality is vastly higher than it has been in most lifetimes too - when did you last see a new car with rust on it, for example? (A few brands, notably Mercedes Benz, produce far worse products than they did in the 90s, but they are the exception). If a wide choice of quality products is the future of the software industry, I'd welcome that, since it certainly is not the state of it today.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      I am certainly not saying there aren't some advantages to an oligopoly, as the auto industry illustrates. But I do think the disadvantages exceed the advantages by a very large margin, even in the auto industry. For instance, there are aspects of new cars that are ubiquitous and I find so objectionable that they prevent me from buying one, probably ever. If the market were more vibrant, I suspect that I'd have real options aside from "I can't have a newer car". Also, oligopolies don't automatically mean that the products are improved. Usually, it's just the opposite.
      - jen20 4y ago
        The auto industry isn’t really an oligopoly though. Even if you restrict to “manufactured in the US” there are more options now than there were 30 years ago _because_ the three big manufactures were making trash, and competition did the job it was supposed to.
        JohnFen 4y ago
        > there are more options now than there were 30 years ago I suppose how true this is depends on what sorts of options you're looking for. The number of acceptable cars on the market now, according to my criteria, is lower than it has ever been.
pilarphosol 4y ago
This. And VC doesn’t help much, because as soon as you take the money you are in a race to become the next overpowered, uninspiring behemoth, only with less resources and a low chance of a real payoff.
Juliate 4y ago
Consolidation may not be inevitable, but it did happen on so many previous innovation waves (steam, electricity, telegraph, telephone, automobile, aviation beginnings were full of small, growing, competitive ideas and ventures too). It comes with industrialisation and commodification and norms and regulation, so it's not all bad either as it consolidates/improves the general quality and availability. (cue Dire Straits' Telegraph Road)
sbierwagen 4y ago
Well, if you want to take the traditionally Marxist position, all that competition results in duplicate work. During the golden age of the workstation, Sun, Silicon Graphics, DEC, HP, NeXT and IBM all made workstations with separate, incompatible operating systems and CPUs. In the end, all those vendors died, and that effort was entirely wasted. It would have been much more efficient if the government had designated a single workstation vendor from the beginning, and denied CPU purchasing licenses to anyone who wanted to compete with them.
- 7thaccount 4y ago
  Efficient? Maybe. But without competition of any kind, there's a possibility we'd still be using DOS lol. There can still be advancements of course under such a system, but I figure the progress would be a lot slower. On the flip side, I can almost see part of your argument. The weather is a perfect example of your argument. The US government funds all the weather models out there, but due to lobbying, they're not allowed to actually have a website that tells us the weather. Instead we get like 5 crappy ad-infested sites that are terrible to use and just make a few people rich. It's insane.
  - sbierwagen 4y ago
    >but due to lobbying, they're not allowed to actually have a website that tells us the weather. Really? Because weather.gov has showing forecasts since 1995. You can view SF here: https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=37.78&textField2=-122.42 https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=37.78&t...
    - 7thaccount 4y ago
      There is some law that prevents the radar piece. I need to see if I can find that.
- andrewjl 4y ago
  > It would have been much more efficient if the government had designated a single workstation vendor from the beginning, and denied CPU purchasing licenses to anyone who wanted to compete with them. How would it be more efficient without a way to know if the end result is any good?