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Or no one cared enough to ask them. I find this the more likely explanation.

by wonderwonder 4y ago

positron6000 4y ago
[flagged]
- janktank 4y ago
  They're only 50% of the population, right?
  - positron6000 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - janktank 4y ago
      Isn't this the same kind of dismissive, silencing behavior the submission calls out? You don't seem to practice what you preach.
      - positron6001 4y ago
        no, because you haven't advanced any argument to be dismissed or silenced. literally just support for "won't someone think of the men?" that argument hasn't been silenced - you can find it in every right-wing crevice of the internet. and i'm not preaching anything, just out here observing how every women's issue on HN gets turned into "but what about the men?" or "they must be lying." anyways, i have to get back to work oppressing men in the workplace. unfortunately we'll never know their plight - as we can tell from the comments here, men definitely suffer in silence and are completely unheard.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  The study fails at its (apparent?) purpose of highlighting sexism in the workplace without that point of comparison, though. It'd still be pretty weak even with that (it's survey-based—observational studies are expensive and hard, but way better), but it's the bare minimum we'd need to even begin to figure out what kinds of interesting things the study might point toward for further examination.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  "The rate of suicide is highest in middle-aged white men. In 2020, men died by suicide 3.88x more than women." https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ Yeah screw those guys right, women are obviously experiencing way more stressful lives and have to deal with more negative things.
  - positron6001 4y ago
    this is an article about women in the workplace, not suicide stats or an attempt to measure some kind of vague notion of suffering ("negative things"?). but sure, let's turn an article about an issue that women face into one about men. again, won't someone think of the men? and only the men?
  - altairprime 4y ago
    There’s a labor department study that found that 25% of US unemployed men will flat out refuse paying work if it doesn’t pay them better than their peers — and then they resent their peers for having paying work. So of course men are more likely to get depressed commit suicide: “I’m worthless unless I’m worth more than he is” is a cruel and vicious ethos to believe in, and hands responsibility for mental well-being to their neighbor’s salary. (No doubt there’s other reasons too, but all the same: men self-inflict a lot of harm that’s unique to men. Men ought to do something about that.)
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      Current unemployment rate is 3.4%. assume half are men. So 1.7%. 25% of that is 0.425% of men. Maybe not the greatest statistical measure to judge men's suicide rates on. How would men even know how much their coworkers make? I would very much like to see the wording of the question that drove this survey. Did the study ask the same question of women? If not then how do we know this is just not a human thing. Why base the suicide rates on that and not on getting cut down at work or any and all the issues the article says women are suffering from at a high rate? They seem more likely to explain a nearly 4x suicide rate.
- dyno12345 4y ago
  you don't know if gender is even a casually related factor if you don't collect data for both genders

Or no one cared enough to ask them. I find this the more likely explanation.

positron6000 4y ago

[flagged]

janktank 4y ago
They're only 50% of the population, right?
- positron6000 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - janktank 4y ago
    Isn't this the same kind of dismissive, silencing behavior the submission calls out? You don't seem to practice what you preach.
    - positron6001 4y ago
      no, because you haven't advanced any argument to be dismissed or silenced. literally just support for "won't someone think of the men?" that argument hasn't been silenced - you can find it in every right-wing crevice of the internet. and i'm not preaching anything, just out here observing how every women's issue on HN gets turned into "but what about the men?" or "they must be lying." anyways, i have to get back to work oppressing men in the workplace. unfortunately we'll never know their plight - as we can tell from the comments here, men definitely suffer in silence and are completely unheard.
yamtaddle 4y ago
The study fails at its (apparent?) purpose of highlighting sexism in the workplace without that point of comparison, though. It'd still be pretty weak even with that (it's survey-based—observational studies are expensive and hard, but way better), but it's the bare minimum we'd need to even begin to figure out what kinds of interesting things the study might point toward for further examination.
wonderwonder 4y ago
"The rate of suicide is highest in middle-aged white men. In 2020, men died by suicide 3.88x more than women." https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ Yeah screw those guys right, women are obviously experiencing way more stressful lives and have to deal with more negative things.
- positron6001 4y ago
  this is an article about women in the workplace, not suicide stats or an attempt to measure some kind of vague notion of suffering ("negative things"?). but sure, let's turn an article about an issue that women face into one about men. again, won't someone think of the men? and only the men?
- altairprime 4y ago
  There’s a labor department study that found that 25% of US unemployed men will flat out refuse paying work if it doesn’t pay them better than their peers — and then they resent their peers for having paying work. So of course men are more likely to get depressed commit suicide: “I’m worthless unless I’m worth more than he is” is a cruel and vicious ethos to believe in, and hands responsibility for mental well-being to their neighbor’s salary. (No doubt there’s other reasons too, but all the same: men self-inflict a lot of harm that’s unique to men. Men ought to do something about that.)
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    Current unemployment rate is 3.4%. assume half are men. So 1.7%. 25% of that is 0.425% of men. Maybe not the greatest statistical measure to judge men's suicide rates on. How would men even know how much their coworkers make? I would very much like to see the wording of the question that drove this survey. Did the study ask the same question of women? If not then how do we know this is just not a human thing. Why base the suicide rates on that and not on getting cut down at work or any and all the issues the article says women are suffering from at a high rate? They seem more likely to explain a nearly 4x suicide rate.
dyno12345 4y ago
you don't know if gender is even a casually related factor if you don't collect data for both genders