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You don't need to join an early-stage startup – as a mid-to-senior engineer, even if you only join places that are series-B or later you can still get equity pa

You don't need to join an early-stage startup – as a mid-to-senior engineer, even if you only join places that are series-B or later you can still get equity packages that ultimately end up netting to >1MM/year with the kind of valuation growth that the successful companies in that profile see. I think luck is a big part of it absolutely, I just don't think it's the only piece. But I also know that IME some engineers looking at new roles think about likelihood of company success way less than they should relative to "do I like the technology/culture/whatever" and so it is not surprising if they don't end up at successful companies.

marcus_holmes 4y ago
I think the reverse: that entering a company based on "am I going to enjoy it here?" is a better bet. If you hate it there, you'll probably leave and never vest your equity. Even if you hang on and suffer through it to get your equity, it'll damage you in ways that money won't help with. If you hate it, chances are that everyone else does too, which means the good people will leave and the startup is less likely to succeed even if everything else is good. Most engineers enjoy interesting challenges, and this can be a big factor in choosing a role. If the startup is providing interesting challenges then it's doing interesting/difficult stuff. This is a factor in success - startups that aren't doing interesting/difficult stuff are easier to copy and have less barriers to entry for competitors. Even if you don't get lucky and win the equity lottery, you had a good job and probably learned some interesting things.
nkjnlknlk 4y ago
Can you speak as to how you would develop the skill to identify companies that end up having success but _also_ compensate their employees well? Also, if you're actually good at that skill, aren't you incentivized to just be an investor instead? Regardless, being able to identify "company success" is something that's always been taught as luck/lottery so I'd love to improve my ability here.
- gitfan86 4y ago
  I'm in that situation, I've made more money on investing in technology companies than working at them. Unfortunately the skillsets are somewhat orthogonal so I was unable to get a job at Google, but was able to buy in at the IPO.
jjav 4y ago
> You don't need to join an early-stage startup – as a mid-to-senior engineer, even if you only join places that are series-B or later I'd say the mid-growth time (series B and nearby but of course depends on the company) is a particularly bad time to join a startup. It is too late to get favorable stock options but too early to tell if it's going to be a home run. So for individual contributors it's pretty much all blind risk with low probability of reward. Good times to join a startup are very early when the valuation is a couple pennies or less so you can get meaningful percentage of stock and you can early exercise all of it for little money and file 83b. Or join late in the game startups that are big hits and clearly going to the IPO. Way less stock, but risk of failure is now small.

marcus_holmes 4y ago

I think the reverse: that entering a company based on "am I going to enjoy it here?" is a better bet. If you hate it there, you'll probably leave and never vest your equity. Even if you hang on and suffer through it to get your equity, it'll damage you in ways that money won't help with. If you hate it, chances are that everyone else does too, which means the good people will leave and the startup is less likely to succeed even if everything else is good. Most engineers enjoy interesting challenges, and this can be a big factor in choosing a role. If the startup is providing interesting challenges then it's doing interesting/difficult stuff. This is a factor in success - startups that aren't doing interesting/difficult stuff are easier to copy and have less barriers to entry for competitors. Even if you don't get lucky and win the equity lottery, you had a good job and probably learned some interesting things.

nkjnlknlk 4y ago

Can you speak as to how you would develop the skill to identify companies that end up having success but _also_ compensate their employees well? Also, if you're actually good at that skill, aren't you incentivized to just be an investor instead? Regardless, being able to identify "company success" is something that's always been taught as luck/lottery so I'd love to improve my ability here.

gitfan86 4y ago
I'm in that situation, I've made more money on investing in technology companies than working at them. Unfortunately the skillsets are somewhat orthogonal so I was unable to get a job at Google, but was able to buy in at the IPO.

jjav 4y ago

> You don't need to join an early-stage startup – as a mid-to-senior engineer, even if you only join places that are series-B or later I'd say the mid-growth time (series B and nearby but of course depends on the company) is a particularly bad time to join a startup. It is too late to get favorable stock options but too early to tell if it's going to be a home run. So for individual contributors it's pretty much all blind risk with low probability of reward. Good times to join a startup are very early when the valuation is a couple pennies or less so you can get meaningful percentage of stock and you can early exercise all of it for little money and file 83b. Or join late in the game startups that are big hits and clearly going to the IPO. Way less stock, but risk of failure is now small.