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I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. The HBS case study on Google won't even mention

I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. The HBS case study on Google won't even mention "don't be evil" except maybe as an example of how amateurs shouldn't be permitted to do corporate communications. There are plenty of companies that we love (hello, Apple) that don't pretend to have lofty corporate values. Yet we keep buying their products and they keep making assloads of money. That's the way it is.

mindcrime 15y ago
There are plenty of companies that we love (hello, Apple) Speak for yourself... there are plenty of us who cheerily invite Apple to go straight to hell. You can certainly count me among their number, for one. I have no use whatsoever for their anti-hacker ethos, their locked-down, proprietary, "no user repairable parts inside" attitude, and the arrogance with which they presume to know more about what the customer needs, than the customer does. I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. That's hardly a settled point. There's evidence on both sides of the argument, to this day.
- jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
  "Plenty of us" where plenty equals...how many? Apple was crowned as the biggest PC maker in the world this week.
  - mindcrime 15y ago
    Plenty of us" where plenty equals...how many? Honestly, from my point of view, just myself counts as "plenty" in this context. But I'm pretty sure the number is actually higher than that. Just count up all the F/OSS ideologues who refuse to use closed-source / proprietary software as a matter of principle, for starters. And I'm guessing there are a handful of folks who don't count themselves as total GNU hippies, but still prefer to shy away from companies that sell products based around such a locked-down, proprietary, closed-off ethos. Apple was crowned as the biggest PC maker in the world this week. I never said they weren't successful... I'm just saying that not everybody buys into their bullshit or likes their shitty proprietary products, that's all.
    - shinratdr 15y ago
      > I never said they weren't successful... I'm just saying that not everybody buys into their bullshit or likes their shitty proprietary products, that's all. ...So you've chosen to swallow someone else's bullshit line then instead? That's way better.
      - mindcrime 15y ago
        Not everyone has the same fundamental values, you know. I value freedom, hackability and openness over the kinds of things that Apple fanboys seem to prize. That doesn't make anybody wrong or right, or either option better or worse; it just reflects the underlying truth that we don't all value the same things.
        shinratdr 15y ago
        Right, but I didn't say the products you like are shitty now did I? What you like isn't bullshit. Your overly aggressive opinion on Apple is what's bullshit. Anyone with a reasoned opinion would never brand Apple's products as shitty. They might not like some of the philosophy behind them, but they aren't bad products in any light. We may not all value the same things, that doesn't mean we need to be deliberately ignorant about the appeal others see in a product.
danilocampos 15y ago
> I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. The HBS case study on Google won't even mention "don't be evil" except maybe as an example of how amateurs shouldn't be permitted to do corporate communications. ...Huh? You appear to be replying to me, but I'm puzzled by what you've typed. Who mentioned anything about values? This is about ruining a core product's user experience and the repercussions of any strategy that allows that.
- joering2 15y ago
  I think that their "dont be evil motto" played crucial role in their PR and popularity. Net was new back then, google was tapping into new areas, collecting info on every search you do, everywhere you go. they needed their DBE slogan. IT was rather a PR genius than an amateurish marketing.

mindcrime 15y ago

There are plenty of companies that we love (hello, Apple) Speak for yourself... there are plenty of us who cheerily invite Apple to go straight to hell. You can certainly count me among their number, for one. I have no use whatsoever for their anti-hacker ethos, their locked-down, proprietary, "no user repairable parts inside" attitude, and the arrogance with which they presume to know more about what the customer needs, than the customer does. I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. That's hardly a settled point. There's evidence on both sides of the argument, to this day.

jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
"Plenty of us" where plenty equals...how many? Apple was crowned as the biggest PC maker in the world this week.
- mindcrime 15y ago
  Plenty of us" where plenty equals...how many? Honestly, from my point of view, just myself counts as "plenty" in this context. But I'm pretty sure the number is actually higher than that. Just count up all the F/OSS ideologues who refuse to use closed-source / proprietary software as a matter of principle, for starters. And I'm guessing there are a handful of folks who don't count themselves as total GNU hippies, but still prefer to shy away from companies that sell products based around such a locked-down, proprietary, closed-off ethos. Apple was crowned as the biggest PC maker in the world this week. I never said they weren't successful... I'm just saying that not everybody buys into their bullshit or likes their shitty proprietary products, that's all.
  - shinratdr 15y ago
    > I never said they weren't successful... I'm just saying that not everybody buys into their bullshit or likes their shitty proprietary products, that's all. ...So you've chosen to swallow someone else's bullshit line then instead? That's way better.
    - mindcrime 15y ago
      Not everyone has the same fundamental values, you know. I value freedom, hackability and openness over the kinds of things that Apple fanboys seem to prize. That doesn't make anybody wrong or right, or either option better or worse; it just reflects the underlying truth that we don't all value the same things.
      - shinratdr 15y ago
        Right, but I didn't say the products you like are shitty now did I? What you like isn't bullshit. Your overly aggressive opinion on Apple is what's bullshit. Anyone with a reasoned opinion would never brand Apple's products as shitty. They might not like some of the philosophy behind them, but they aren't bad products in any light. We may not all value the same things, that doesn't mean we need to be deliberately ignorant about the appeal others see in a product.

danilocampos 15y ago

> I'm sure this is going to be unpopular, but sorry, when it comes to corporate success, values don't mean shit. The HBS case study on Google won't even mention "don't be evil" except maybe as an example of how amateurs shouldn't be permitted to do corporate communications. ...Huh? You appear to be replying to me, but I'm puzzled by what you've typed. Who mentioned anything about values? This is about ruining a core product's user experience and the repercussions of any strategy that allows that.

joering2 15y ago
I think that their "dont be evil motto" played crucial role in their PR and popularity. Net was new back then, google was tapping into new areas, collecting info on every search you do, everywhere you go. they needed their DBE slogan. IT was rather a PR genius than an amateurish marketing.