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Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. No civil or criminal law has been broken, this isn't about predators and victims. This is es

by htag 4y ago

Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. No civil or criminal law has been broken, this isn't about predators and victims. This is essentially a group of people complaining to management because an employee has broken an internal morality code.

delecti 4y ago
> because an employee has broken an internal morality code When the organization as a whole only exists to enforce that morality code, it makes more sense that they would also heavily police internally as well.
dogleash 4y ago
> Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. Do remember that this particular morality code is an unfashionable one. There are other taboos that also cause a waste of resources by people seeking corrective action where no law is broken and no one is victimized. And those are cheered on because those codes are fashionable. Sure, this is dumb through and through. But this scenario just has properties that lend themselves to headlines meant to stir people up.
- tpush 4y ago
  > And those are cheered on because those codes are fashionable. Which ones?
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. No civil or criminal law has been broken, this isn't about predators and victims. Sounds exactly like the kind of thing one national political parties would have done to another prior to the fairly recent widespread acceptance of gay marriage.
kilgnad 4y ago
That's thinking from an outsiders perspective. These people are pillars of their community. To have them teaching other people and leading is just disgusting from their perspective. Look, I support gay rights, I'm the furthest thing from catholic. But I understand how many communities find homosexuality unnatural and wrong. You should respect that and NOT join that community. Just like how Catholics shouldn't enforce their ideas on the rest of the world, you shouldn't enforce yours either.
- foldr 4y ago
  > "A group of conservative Colorado Catholics has spent millions of dollars to buy mobile app tracking data that identified priests who used gay dating and hookup apps and then shared it with bishops around the country." > Look, I support gay rights Not sure how you can support gay rights and also be ok with organisations spying on gay people (specifically because they're gay). One can debate whether or not this practice should be illegal, but it's clearly wrong, even by the tenets of Catholicism itself. Why are they not also spying on straight priests using Tinder?
  - fwlr 4y ago
    I mean, it’s not just any organization, it’s the anti-gay organization. At least to me, this fits more into the category of “The Vegan Society spying on its employees through restaurant checking and UberEats orders”, which I wouldn’t describe as “spying on vegans (specifically because they’re vegan)”.
    - foldr 4y ago
      Well no, that would be spying on non-vegans specifically because they’re non-vegan (in the equivalent scenario where they were tracking usage of an app that only offered non-vegan options). Also, wouldn't that be an extremely weird and creepy thing for The Vegan Society to do? I’m surprised you’d offer this analogy as a defense of the behavior in question.
      - fwlr 4y ago
        Quick correction: I’m not defending this behavior (if it happened to me I would quit the company on the spot). “That would be spying on non-vegans…” Right, some of the signs are flipped, but the concept is still the same - an organization promoting a particular ethical standard is surveilling its members adherence to that standard. “Weird and creepy…” Yes, certainly! But not against vegan rights, not discriminating against vegans, not “targeting vegans (specifically because they are vegan)”. I was responding to the claim that supporting gay rights is incompatible with tolerating this practice.
foldr 4y ago
[flagged]
Connor_Creegan 4y ago
[flagged]
- htag 4y ago
  This is very interesting. Thank you for sharing. From my perspective I do not have an associate between homosexuality and pederasty. One of the things that bothers me is the targeted investigation on gay men. If someone is investigating sexual activity of priests why are they limiting themselves to homosexual activity? Why is breaking vows of celibacy with women less serious than with men?
  - count 4y ago
    Fornication with women is a celibacy vow, but otherwise encouraged for the laity to reproduce and be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is, as mentioned, viewed as an evil tendency or sin, rather than something to be encouraged, and thus is more serious on its own.
    - foldr 4y ago
      Yes, this is what Catholics would say (with optional gay men = pedos dog whistles - see your sibling comment). It’s an explicitly homophobic rationale that depends on the assumption that being gay is worse than being straight. So while it sheds some light on the internal logic of Catholic homophobia, it’s hardly likely to reassure anyone who is worried that gay men are being singled out for unfair treatment. Rather, it explains exactly why this is occurring.
      - kilgnad 4y ago
        Wow, what is this? You know about how many Catholics view pedophilia as equivalent to homosexuality and you had the gall to accuse me of being inflammatory in my other comment. You do have an agenda.
        foldr 4y ago
seanhunter 4y ago
Imagine also calling yourself a "philanthropist" while doing so as well.

by htag 4y ago

delecti 4y ago

> because an employee has broken an internal morality code When the organization as a whole only exists to enforce that morality code, it makes more sense that they would also heavily police internally as well.

dogleash 4y ago

> Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. Do remember that this particular morality code is an unfashionable one. There are other taboos that also cause a waste of resources by people seeking corrective action where no law is broken and no one is victimized. And those are cheered on because those codes are fashionable. Sure, this is dumb through and through. But this scenario just has properties that lend themselves to headlines meant to stir people up.

tpush 4y ago
> And those are cheered on because those codes are fashionable. Which ones?

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

>Imagine spending millions of dollars to prove 32 people are gay. No civil or criminal law has been broken, this isn't about predators and victims. Sounds exactly like the kind of thing one national political parties would have done to another prior to the fairly recent widespread acceptance of gay marriage.

kilgnad 4y ago

That's thinking from an outsiders perspective. These people are pillars of their community. To have them teaching other people and leading is just disgusting from their perspective. Look, I support gay rights, I'm the furthest thing from catholic. But I understand how many communities find homosexuality unnatural and wrong. You should respect that and NOT join that community. Just like how Catholics shouldn't enforce their ideas on the rest of the world, you shouldn't enforce yours either.

foldr 4y ago
> "A group of conservative Colorado Catholics has spent millions of dollars to buy mobile app tracking data that identified priests who used gay dating and hookup apps and then shared it with bishops around the country." > Look, I support gay rights Not sure how you can support gay rights and also be ok with organisations spying on gay people (specifically because they're gay). One can debate whether or not this practice should be illegal, but it's clearly wrong, even by the tenets of Catholicism itself. Why are they not also spying on straight priests using Tinder?
- fwlr 4y ago
  I mean, it’s not just any organization, it’s the anti-gay organization. At least to me, this fits more into the category of “The Vegan Society spying on its employees through restaurant checking and UberEats orders”, which I wouldn’t describe as “spying on vegans (specifically because they’re vegan)”.
  - foldr 4y ago
    Well no, that would be spying on non-vegans specifically because they’re non-vegan (in the equivalent scenario where they were tracking usage of an app that only offered non-vegan options). Also, wouldn't that be an extremely weird and creepy thing for The Vegan Society to do? I’m surprised you’d offer this analogy as a defense of the behavior in question.
    - fwlr 4y ago
      Quick correction: I’m not defending this behavior (if it happened to me I would quit the company on the spot). “That would be spying on non-vegans…” Right, some of the signs are flipped, but the concept is still the same - an organization promoting a particular ethical standard is surveilling its members adherence to that standard. “Weird and creepy…” Yes, certainly! But not against vegan rights, not discriminating against vegans, not “targeting vegans (specifically because they are vegan)”. I was responding to the claim that supporting gay rights is incompatible with tolerating this practice.

foldr 4y ago

[flagged]

Connor_Creegan 4y ago

[flagged]

htag 4y ago
This is very interesting. Thank you for sharing. From my perspective I do not have an associate between homosexuality and pederasty. One of the things that bothers me is the targeted investigation on gay men. If someone is investigating sexual activity of priests why are they limiting themselves to homosexual activity? Why is breaking vows of celibacy with women less serious than with men?
- count 4y ago
  Fornication with women is a celibacy vow, but otherwise encouraged for the laity to reproduce and be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is, as mentioned, viewed as an evil tendency or sin, rather than something to be encouraged, and thus is more serious on its own.
  - foldr 4y ago
    Yes, this is what Catholics would say (with optional gay men = pedos dog whistles - see your sibling comment). It’s an explicitly homophobic rationale that depends on the assumption that being gay is worse than being straight. So while it sheds some light on the internal logic of Catholic homophobia, it’s hardly likely to reassure anyone who is worried that gay men are being singled out for unfair treatment. Rather, it explains exactly why this is occurring.
    - kilgnad 4y ago
      Wow, what is this? You know about how many Catholics view pedophilia as equivalent to homosexuality and you had the gall to accuse me of being inflammatory in my other comment. You do have an agenda.
      - foldr 4y ago

seanhunter 4y ago

Imagine also calling yourself a "philanthropist" while doing so as well.