3 ms·

> This is a great post demonstrating just how bad the ergonomics of Rust are (I know I know, that's not the point of Rust). A chainsaw is meant to saw wood. Bu

> This is a great post demonstrating just how bad the ergonomics of Rust are (I know I know, that's not the point of Rust). A chainsaw is meant to saw wood. But it should still have a good usability. Err, sorry. I meant to say hammer. > But for people who care about language usability you can point to this post and say "they were not thinking about the user journey during the design process, how would you have designed it differently?" People have been discussing how to make Rust usable on the rust-lang issue trackers and RFC repositories all the time that I’ve observed from the peanut gallery. Before the stable 1.0 release as well. It’s not for a lack of trying.

jamincan 4y ago
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what the first generation of languages influenced by Rust will look like. A first iteration on an idea is always going to make mistakes that a second iteration can do away with.
- verdagon 4y ago
  I'm particularly excited for this too. We're starting to see a lot on the horizon: * Austral is using linear types for zero-cost memory safety [0] and then allows for borrowing on top of that. Val does something similar called mutable value semantics, which is pretty interesting [3]. * Vale brings borrow checking up to the regions level [1] which gives borrow checking benefits while still allowing mutable aliasing, which makes it much more flexible and ergonomic. * Cone uses borrow checking on top of any user-specified allocation strategy, such as single ownership, RC, GC, etc. [2] [0] https://borretti.me/article/introducing-austral https://borretti.me/article/introducing-austral [1] https://verdagon.dev/blog/zero-cost-memory-safety-regions-part-1-immutable-borrowing https://verdagon.dev/blog/zero-cost-memory-safety-regions-pa... [2] https://cone.jondgoodwin.com/ https://cone.jondgoodwin.com/ [3] https://github.com/val-lang/val https://github.com/val-lang/val
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    Note for others: This person (based on nick and domain name) is the “lead for the Vale Programming Language” but didn’t feel like disclosing that fact in this comment.
estebank 4y ago
And anyone that has learned (or just plain gotten used to) Rust in the last 3 years would be in for a shock if they tried to use Rust 1.0. Things have gotten better since. And I'd bet that it will continue to do so, at least for a while.

jamincan 4y ago

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what the first generation of languages influenced by Rust will look like. A first iteration on an idea is always going to make mistakes that a second iteration can do away with.

verdagon 4y ago
I'm particularly excited for this too. We're starting to see a lot on the horizon: * Austral is using linear types for zero-cost memory safety [0] and then allows for borrowing on top of that. Val does something similar called mutable value semantics, which is pretty interesting [3]. * Vale brings borrow checking up to the regions level [1] which gives borrow checking benefits while still allowing mutable aliasing, which makes it much more flexible and ergonomic. * Cone uses borrow checking on top of any user-specified allocation strategy, such as single ownership, RC, GC, etc. [2] [0] https://borretti.me/article/introducing-austral https://borretti.me/article/introducing-austral [1] https://verdagon.dev/blog/zero-cost-memory-safety-regions-part-1-immutable-borrowing https://verdagon.dev/blog/zero-cost-memory-safety-regions-pa... [2] https://cone.jondgoodwin.com/ https://cone.jondgoodwin.com/ [3] https://github.com/val-lang/val https://github.com/val-lang/val
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  Note for others: This person (based on nick and domain name) is the “lead for the Vale Programming Language” but didn’t feel like disclosing that fact in this comment.

estebank 4y ago

And anyone that has learned (or just plain gotten used to) Rust in the last 3 years would be in for a shock if they tried to use Rust 1.0. Things have gotten better since. And I'd bet that it will continue to do so, at least for a while.