5 ms·

The amount of single parent households has 5X'd since the 50s. The US now leads the world in this measure. This seems like such an obvious factor to leave out

The amount of single parent households has 5X'd since the 50s. The US now leads the world in this measure. This seems like such an obvious factor to leave out of an article like this. I have trouble believing it's not one of, if not the most important changes the US has gone through.

prottog 4y ago
And there is ample evidence to suggest that the incentive structures created by the very same Great Society anti-poverty measures are the most responsible for this tragic fact.
speculativename 4y ago
In the 1950s you could also afford to raise a family of 4 on a single (male) income. If a single mother's income today was comparable to a husband's income back in the 50's relative to cost of living, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Or, you know, if we had any number of institutions in this country which are more common in the rest of the developed world, such as paid childcare and maternity leave, affordable healthcare and rent, real protections against discriminating on the basis of age&gender, etc.
- prottog 4y ago
  You're comparing a dual-parent household to a single-parent household and claiming that if they made the same amount of money, the children would be equally well off. I'm not sure where you get this idea.
  - KMag 4y ago
    Right. Even when the kids are old enough to be in school full-time, there's still lots of "free" labor that's being left out of the GP's reasoning. A single parent's earning power would need to be significantly higher than a 1950's man's earning power and/or they'd need the same earning power with significantly more non-work hours per week.
celeritascelery 4y ago
There is a strong correlation between poverty and single parent households[1 2 3]. However it is not a popular thing to talk about because it can feel like “blaming the victim”. But if we ignore it we can’t have productive conversations about how to solve poverty. [1]https://post.ca.gov/portals/0/post_docs/publications/Building%20a%20Career%20Pipeline%20Documents/safe_harbor.pdf https://post.ca.gov/portals/0/post_docs/publications/Buildin... [2]https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-col... [3]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/04/half-of-all-children-in-lone-parent-families-are-in-relative-poverty https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/04/half-of-all...
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  But is the correlation cause or effect? AFAICT, there is strong evidence that poverty is a leading cause of single parent households.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    This is why it's important to remember that correlation != causation
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    How does poverty cause someone to become a parent, and then cause the other parent to leave? Not disagreeing, but I've never been in abject poverty so I can't really understand how the line goes from one to the other.
    - diordiderot 4y ago
      Poor people are more likely to make poor choices like unprotected sex, etc and more likely to be religious (no abortion, be fruitful)
    - sethrin 4y ago
      Money stress does terrible things to even the best relationships. It doesn't even have to be abject poverty. Most of the people in the US would have a hard time dealing with an unexpected $500-1000 expense[0]. Which of course is a fantastically plausible outcome from almost any kind of medical issue -- nearly 2/3rds of bankruptcies are because of medical debt[1]. What choices do you make when your partner's difficulties make it so that you can't afford to eat? How long do you keep your kids in a situation where Famine stalks them, hollow-cheeked? [0] https://www.bankrate.com/banking/savings/emergency-savings-report/ https://www.bankrate.com/banking/savings/emergency-savings-r... [1] https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext

prottog 4y ago

And there is ample evidence to suggest that the incentive structures created by the very same Great Society anti-poverty measures are the most responsible for this tragic fact.

speculativename 4y ago

In the 1950s you could also afford to raise a family of 4 on a single (male) income. If a single mother's income today was comparable to a husband's income back in the 50's relative to cost of living, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Or, you know, if we had any number of institutions in this country which are more common in the rest of the developed world, such as paid childcare and maternity leave, affordable healthcare and rent, real protections against discriminating on the basis of age&gender, etc.

prottog 4y ago
You're comparing a dual-parent household to a single-parent household and claiming that if they made the same amount of money, the children would be equally well off. I'm not sure where you get this idea.
- KMag 4y ago
  Right. Even when the kids are old enough to be in school full-time, there's still lots of "free" labor that's being left out of the GP's reasoning. A single parent's earning power would need to be significantly higher than a 1950's man's earning power and/or they'd need the same earning power with significantly more non-work hours per week.

celeritascelery 4y ago

There is a strong correlation between poverty and single parent households[1 2 3]. However it is not a popular thing to talk about because it can feel like “blaming the victim”. But if we ignore it we can’t have productive conversations about how to solve poverty. [1]https://post.ca.gov/portals/0/post_docs/publications/Building%20a%20Career%20Pipeline%20Documents/safe_harbor.pdf https://post.ca.gov/portals/0/post_docs/publications/Buildin... [2]https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-col... [3]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/04/half-of-all-children-in-lone-parent-families-are-in-relative-poverty https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/04/half-of-all...

bryanlarsen 4y ago
But is the correlation cause or effect? AFAICT, there is strong evidence that poverty is a leading cause of single parent households.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  This is why it's important to remember that correlation != causation
- ryandrake 4y ago
  How does poverty cause someone to become a parent, and then cause the other parent to leave? Not disagreeing, but I've never been in abject poverty so I can't really understand how the line goes from one to the other.
  - diordiderot 4y ago
    Poor people are more likely to make poor choices like unprotected sex, etc and more likely to be religious (no abortion, be fruitful)
  - sethrin 4y ago
    Money stress does terrible things to even the best relationships. It doesn't even have to be abject poverty. Most of the people in the US would have a hard time dealing with an unexpected $500-1000 expense[0]. Which of course is a fantastically plausible outcome from almost any kind of medical issue -- nearly 2/3rds of bankruptcies are because of medical debt[1]. What choices do you make when your partner's difficulties make it so that you can't afford to eat? How long do you keep your kids in a situation where Famine stalks them, hollow-cheeked? [0] https://www.bankrate.com/banking/savings/emergency-savings-report/ https://www.bankrate.com/banking/savings/emergency-savings-r... [1] https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext