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So rather than focusing on making sure the upgrades work, they check during the upgrades actually do work? Compared to Linux, which makes sure the upgrades work

So rather than focusing on making sure the upgrades work, they check during the upgrades actually do work? Compared to Linux, which makes sure the upgrades work so no checking is necessary? And this is what takes the majority of time and requires multiple reboots during the installation process and requires a slow first login? I don't know, that sounds very sloppy if true and not something I'd expect from professional OSes developed by huge companies.

ayende 4y ago
To give context, what happens if you lose power midway through? One of the things Windows will do is first lay out the work to revert all changes in that happens (across potentially thousands of files). It also need to flush them to disk (very slow, even on SSD) and then perform in a manner that would survive all sorts of failures. That is pretty expensive.
- InfamousRece 4y ago
  Some modern linux distros use snapper to create a snapshot prior to upgrading. This snapshot can be used to roll back the upgrade. Not only in case of power outage but also if the upgrade introduces bugs or other issues. The upgrade is still fast, so it is the best of both worlds?
ayende 4y ago
Here are good examples of the problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/pjcnh0/power_outage_broken_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/pjcnh0/power_out... https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/453074/power-loss-while-updating-arch-linux-cant-boot-into-os-anymore https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/453074/power-loss-w... https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=106441 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=106441
- capableweb 4y ago
  Are you trying to say Windows/macOS won't break if they lose power in the middle of the upgrade process? I remember long time ago (maybe back in the xp/vista days) when my Windows installation broke when we had a power outage during my upgrade. Haven't happened lately, but searching online I can see bunch of people having the same problem with latest Windows versions and macOS as well, requiring a reinstall to fix.
darthrupert 4y ago
I don't know the specifics about Windows. They probably have a ton of legacy their users have to suffer from. Macs afaik just replace the whole OS on every upgrade. Takes some time but tends to be kinda atomic without requiring complexity.

ayende 4y ago

To give context, what happens if you lose power midway through? One of the things Windows will do is first lay out the work to revert all changes in that happens (across potentially thousands of files). It also need to flush them to disk (very slow, even on SSD) and then perform in a manner that would survive all sorts of failures. That is pretty expensive.

InfamousRece 4y ago
Some modern linux distros use snapper to create a snapshot prior to upgrading. This snapshot can be used to roll back the upgrade. Not only in case of power outage but also if the upgrade introduces bugs or other issues. The upgrade is still fast, so it is the best of both worlds?

ayende 4y ago

Here are good examples of the problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/pjcnh0/power_outage_broken_system/ https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/pjcnh0/power_out... https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/453074/power-loss-while-updating-arch-linux-cant-boot-into-os-anymore https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/453074/power-loss-w... https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=106441 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=106441

capableweb 4y ago
Are you trying to say Windows/macOS won't break if they lose power in the middle of the upgrade process? I remember long time ago (maybe back in the xp/vista days) when my Windows installation broke when we had a power outage during my upgrade. Haven't happened lately, but searching online I can see bunch of people having the same problem with latest Windows versions and macOS as well, requiring a reinstall to fix.

darthrupert 4y ago

I don't know the specifics about Windows. They probably have a ton of legacy their users have to suffer from. Macs afaik just replace the whole OS on every upgrade. Takes some time but tends to be kinda atomic without requiring complexity.