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But isn't IQ supposed to be relatively knowledge-independent? I.E. the test should not rely on advanced language knowledge or knowledge of mathematics. How can

But isn't IQ supposed to be relatively knowledge-independent? I.E. the test should not rely on advanced language knowledge or knowledge of mathematics. How can poor (or good) education then affect IQ scores?

blodkorv 4y ago
If you dont exercise your brain you wont reach the potential you have within you.
- timrichard 4y ago
  I was wondering about stimulation as well, in terms of media. YouTube recently offered up some throwbacks, and I remembered a great kids TV programme on the BBC from 1980. https://youtu.be/rOuAzHjsiOg?t=9m56s https://youtu.be/rOuAzHjsiOg?t=9m56s Between the Adventure Game and the Great Egg Race, there was mainstream (3 TV stations) fodder for developing minds with an interest. There's a lot of modern stimulating educational material on YouTube, but it's in an ocean of filler.
deleted 4y ago
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The_Colonel 4y ago
Good education is about teaching you how to think, which is applicable to IQ tests.
jimhefferon 4y ago
The key there is that it is indeed supposed to be, but it isn't. People have tried to make a way to get at some kind of inherent ability but no one has succeeded.
notahacker 4y ago
Relatively knowledge-independent is not the same as absolutely knowledge independent. Familiarity with basic mental arithmetic, a decent vocabulary and certain types of pattern all going to improve your ability to answer different forms of IQ test, especially if you're somewhere in the middle of the distribution, and we're talking average differences of a couple of percentage points here.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
The test that goes down in history as "the first IQ test" was never intended to measure intelligence. It was intended to measure school readiness for French children in an era where: 1. Not everyone had a birth certificate, so you could not base it on age. 2. City kids tended to be ready for school earlier than rural kids because they were more familiar with processes like queuing up. The entire concept and history of intelligence testing is rife with problems and remains controversial.
- pqrtstuvw 4y ago
  “The entire concept and history of intelligence testing is rife with problems and remains controversial.” Jesus. No it’s not, and no it isn’t. This doesn’t mean that people love that variation in intelligence is a thing, but to say it’s rife with problems is just patently false. For sure some people don’t like that intelligence is “a thing” and don’t want to accept the reality of the construct, but that’s a different matter from claiming the construct itself is somehow still up for debate or otherwise questionable as as you seem to be doing. Psychology and assessment more generally are a long way from the first ability measures.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Terman, Lewis & Merrill, Maude (1937). Measuring Intelligence: A Guide to the Administration of the New Revised Stanford-Binet Tests of Intelligence. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. p. 25. That is why the later authors Kenneth Hopkins and Julian Stanley (founder of the Study of Exceptional Talent) suggested that is better to regard IQ tests as tests of "scholastic aptitude" rather than of intelligence. They wrote "Most authorities feel that current intelligence tests are more aptly described as 'scholastic aptitude' tests because they are so highly related to academic performance, although current use suggests that the term intelligence test is going to be with us for some time. This reservation is based not on the opinion that intelligence tests do not reflect intelligence but on the belief that there are other kinds of intelligence that are not reflected in current tests; the term intelligence is too inclusive." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4740784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4740784 Edit: And that's without getting into the long history of classism, racism, etc impacting such tests.
deleted 4y ago
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tremon 4y ago
Knowledge isn't the only thing you acquire during your education. You also learn how to analyze a problem, how to process the information given, or in general: how to think.
ilyt 4y ago
It's still a skill that could be trained. IQ tests are basically solving a bunch of problems, they might be knowledge-independent but practice still helps, even if it is indirect one (solving problems at school)

blodkorv 4y ago

If you dont exercise your brain you wont reach the potential you have within you.

timrichard 4y ago
I was wondering about stimulation as well, in terms of media. YouTube recently offered up some throwbacks, and I remembered a great kids TV programme on the BBC from 1980. https://youtu.be/rOuAzHjsiOg?t=9m56s https://youtu.be/rOuAzHjsiOg?t=9m56s Between the Adventure Game and the Great Egg Race, there was mainstream (3 TV stations) fodder for developing minds with an interest. There's a lot of modern stimulating educational material on YouTube, but it's in an ocean of filler.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

The_Colonel 4y ago

Good education is about teaching you how to think, which is applicable to IQ tests.

jimhefferon 4y ago

The key there is that it is indeed supposed to be, but it isn't. People have tried to make a way to get at some kind of inherent ability but no one has succeeded.

notahacker 4y ago

Relatively knowledge-independent is not the same as absolutely knowledge independent. Familiarity with basic mental arithmetic, a decent vocabulary and certain types of pattern all going to improve your ability to answer different forms of IQ test, especially if you're somewhere in the middle of the distribution, and we're talking average differences of a couple of percentage points here.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

The test that goes down in history as "the first IQ test" was never intended to measure intelligence. It was intended to measure school readiness for French children in an era where: 1. Not everyone had a birth certificate, so you could not base it on age. 2. City kids tended to be ready for school earlier than rural kids because they were more familiar with processes like queuing up. The entire concept and history of intelligence testing is rife with problems and remains controversial.

pqrtstuvw 4y ago
“The entire concept and history of intelligence testing is rife with problems and remains controversial.” Jesus. No it’s not, and no it isn’t. This doesn’t mean that people love that variation in intelligence is a thing, but to say it’s rife with problems is just patently false. For sure some people don’t like that intelligence is “a thing” and don’t want to accept the reality of the construct, but that’s a different matter from claiming the construct itself is somehow still up for debate or otherwise questionable as as you seem to be doing. Psychology and assessment more generally are a long way from the first ability measures.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Terman, Lewis & Merrill, Maude (1937). Measuring Intelligence: A Guide to the Administration of the New Revised Stanford-Binet Tests of Intelligence. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. p. 25. That is why the later authors Kenneth Hopkins and Julian Stanley (founder of the Study of Exceptional Talent) suggested that is better to regard IQ tests as tests of "scholastic aptitude" rather than of intelligence. They wrote "Most authorities feel that current intelligence tests are more aptly described as 'scholastic aptitude' tests because they are so highly related to academic performance, although current use suggests that the term intelligence test is going to be with us for some time. This reservation is based not on the opinion that intelligence tests do not reflect intelligence but on the belief that there are other kinds of intelligence that are not reflected in current tests; the term intelligence is too inclusive." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4740784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4740784 Edit: And that's without getting into the long history of classism, racism, etc impacting such tests.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tremon 4y ago

Knowledge isn't the only thing you acquire during your education. You also learn how to analyze a problem, how to process the information given, or in general: how to think.

ilyt 4y ago

It's still a skill that could be trained. IQ tests are basically solving a bunch of problems, they might be knowledge-independent but practice still helps, even if it is indirect one (solving problems at school)