7 ms·

Its OK, nobody cares... /s?

by fIREpOK 4y ago

b112 4y ago
Just use facebook to send (Biden|Trump) force FBI to ..., as a tailored story to each voter. Now all will care.
- mistermann 4y ago
  I've been doing some experimentation in ChatGPT with this, and it is amazing. With just slightly different ChatGPT query prompts, extremely different, conflicting narratives for a given event can be produced, and each of them sounds/seems perfectly reasonable, and True. For someone to be invulnerable to this sort of thing, they would have to have fairly substantial background in several different obscure domains (none of which are taught in school, quite conveniently), as well as violate several strongly enforced social norms (ie: engaging in "pedantry", thinking in ways we've been trained to pattern match to conspiratorial thinking, falling for Russian propaganda, etc). It does not surprise me in the least how much polarization there is in society over what is actually going on, and how each side genuinely believes that they are take on it is correct. It seems (to me) almost like the system has been deliberately designed to produce this output, because it certainly isn't that hard to figure out how to vastly improve on it.
AndyMcConachie 4y ago
I care, but it's not I can do anything about it. It's not that no one cares. It's that the people who care are powerless, and those empowered don't care.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Correction: those who are empowered care - about maintaining the status quo
lmm 4y ago
I don't see how the FBI buying data that's for sale in the open market is any worse than the likes of Equifax doing so, and no-one seems to care about that.
- fIREpOK 4y ago
  Instead of doing it, the government should create laws to make it illegal (exactly what is up for debate)
  - timeon 4y ago
    Voters should require it as well.
- chaxor 4y ago
  This is what is extremely strange to me (by principle). When the government does it, it seems to make many more headlines and people are outraged, but when a company does it, there is far more acceptance. In principle, it should be far more concerning to see private entities getting access to personal data - because they operate without any opportunity for the public to be involved (their pure tyrannies in a sense) and are completely opaque, but the government is far more transparent and the one institution which you can change by democratic involvement. Of course, this type of data gathering is concerning in any case, but the government is the last on the list of entities we should be worried about having it.
  - neckardt 4y ago
    Historically, there are several instances of governments accumulating more and more power until they turn into a totalitarian state and remove freedoms from their citizens. I don't know of any companies who have abused their power to that extent.
    - altacc 4y ago
      Historically (and currently) there are many companies that directly or indirectly working to limit freedoms, either alone or complicit with governments. Corporations are powerful and in many places have as much power over people as governments. It can be as varied as surveillance (Cisco in China) to murdering opponents (Shell in Nigeria), to industry lobbying. Look around and you'll find many more. The solution to the problem is to go down the EU route of reducing the rights of anyone to collect all this information and make it harder to access that which is collected. It's by no means perfect but it is the right direction.
perfecthjrjth 4y ago
The third-party doctrine makes it legal to acquire data from third parties, without any consent or warrant.

Its OK, nobody cares... /s?

b112 4y ago

Just use facebook to send (Biden|Trump) force FBI to ..., as a tailored story to each voter. Now all will care.

mistermann 4y ago
I've been doing some experimentation in ChatGPT with this, and it is amazing. With just slightly different ChatGPT query prompts, extremely different, conflicting narratives for a given event can be produced, and each of them sounds/seems perfectly reasonable, and True. For someone to be invulnerable to this sort of thing, they would have to have fairly substantial background in several different obscure domains (none of which are taught in school, quite conveniently), as well as violate several strongly enforced social norms (ie: engaging in "pedantry", thinking in ways we've been trained to pattern match to conspiratorial thinking, falling for Russian propaganda, etc). It does not surprise me in the least how much polarization there is in society over what is actually going on, and how each side genuinely believes that they are take on it is correct. It seems (to me) almost like the system has been deliberately designed to produce this output, because it certainly isn't that hard to figure out how to vastly improve on it.

AndyMcConachie 4y ago

I care, but it's not I can do anything about it. It's not that no one cares. It's that the people who care are powerless, and those empowered don't care.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago
Correction: those who are empowered care - about maintaining the status quo

lmm 4y ago

I don't see how the FBI buying data that's for sale in the open market is any worse than the likes of Equifax doing so, and no-one seems to care about that.

fIREpOK 4y ago
Instead of doing it, the government should create laws to make it illegal (exactly what is up for debate)
- timeon 4y ago
  Voters should require it as well.
chaxor 4y ago
This is what is extremely strange to me (by principle). When the government does it, it seems to make many more headlines and people are outraged, but when a company does it, there is far more acceptance. In principle, it should be far more concerning to see private entities getting access to personal data - because they operate without any opportunity for the public to be involved (their pure tyrannies in a sense) and are completely opaque, but the government is far more transparent and the one institution which you can change by democratic involvement. Of course, this type of data gathering is concerning in any case, but the government is the last on the list of entities we should be worried about having it.
- neckardt 4y ago
  Historically, there are several instances of governments accumulating more and more power until they turn into a totalitarian state and remove freedoms from their citizens. I don't know of any companies who have abused their power to that extent.
  - altacc 4y ago
    Historically (and currently) there are many companies that directly or indirectly working to limit freedoms, either alone or complicit with governments. Corporations are powerful and in many places have as much power over people as governments. It can be as varied as surveillance (Cisco in China) to murdering opponents (Shell in Nigeria), to industry lobbying. Look around and you'll find many more. The solution to the problem is to go down the EU route of reducing the rights of anyone to collect all this information and make it harder to access that which is collected. It's by no means perfect but it is the right direction.

perfecthjrjth 4y ago

The third-party doctrine makes it legal to acquire data from third parties, without any consent or warrant.