3 ms·

> Police unions are far more powerful that public k-12 teacher unions. There are about 5 teachers per police officer, so teachers unions should typically be mu

> Police unions are far more powerful that public k-12 teacher unions. There are about 5 teachers per police officer, so teachers unions should typically be much stronger than police unions.

EngManagerIsMe 4y ago
Sure, but a police officer has much (much) more power than 5 teachers. I can't remember the last time teachers benefited from qualified immunity or civil forfeiture.
- Jensson 4y ago
  I have never heard people chant "Defund the schools" though, so it seems like teachers has much more political support and power overall. Qualified immunity isn't thanks to police unions, the supreme court decided that because they thought that policemen shouldn't risk go to jail just for doing their job, the police union didn't seem to have much involvement.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    They don’t chant “defund schools”. Instead the slogan is “school choice”. There has been a campaign for the last 50 years to erode public education.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      Are there no teachers in private schools?
      - syzarian 4y ago
        We aren’t talking about private schools. We are talking about whether or not there is a chant similar to “defund the police” for public schools. The answer is yes there is.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    I have never heard people chant "Defund the schools" though Sounds like you don't live in a red state. https://newrepublic.com/article/163817/desantis-republicans-end-public-education https://newrepublic.com/article/163817/desantis-republicans-... https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2021/07/07/how-gop-wants-defund-public-schools-over-critical-race-theory/7895418002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2021... https://www.thenation.com/article/society/gop-populist-defund-rural-schools/ https://www.thenation.com/article/society/gop-populist-defun... https://www.thedailybeast.com/betsy-devos-and-the-gops-plan-to-destroy-public-schools https://www.thedailybeast.com/betsy-devos-and-the-gops-plan-... https://www.salon.com/2022/07/01/schools-out-forever-arizona-moves-to-public-education-with-new-universal-voucher-law/ https://www.salon.com/2022/07/01/schools-out-forever-arizona... https://www.texasobserver.org/disrupt-deplete-destroy/ https://www.texasobserver.org/disrupt-deplete-destroy/
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    > I have never heard people chant “Defund the schools” Hah! That says more about what you listen to than what’s being said. People have been fighting loudly to pull money out of public schools for longer than most people on this site have been alive. It provided more election debate and more massive ad and PR campaigns through the 80’s and 90’s than any police reform politic could dream of, and it continues to be a major part of today’s more crowded debate.
  - EngManagerIsMe 4y ago
    To be fair, police kill a lot more people than teachers do.
syzarian 4y ago
Power as it pertains to a union is about their ability to negotiate working conditions, pay, and worker protections. I know of no large group of public employees with better worker protections.
- Jensson 4y ago
  What worker protection has the police union negotiated that the teachers union failed to get? Qualified immunity isn't due to the unions, and there is no reason to give it to teachers since teachers aren't required to be violent to do their job. If teachers were required to be violent then they would have qualified immunity as well.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    Police hold municipalities hostage if they don’t get their way in terms of protection from prosecution for violating peoples’ civil rights and for exerting nonjudicial punishments. In my city a councilman complained about police brutality and the police purposefully responded to non violent 911 calls hours after they were made. When they would show up they would tell people to thank their councilman for the delay. Police commit more domestic violence on average and get prosecuted for this violence at a much lower rate than non police. In some municipalities police are effectively a gang.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    My police union's president has been fired from the force 3 times because he literally abused people, including children at the school he was supposed to be protecting, and each time the union sued and got him reinstated. Meanwhile teachers are fired regularly.

> Police unions are far more powerful that public k-12 teacher unions. There are about 5 teachers per police officer, so teachers unions should typically be much stronger than police unions.

EngManagerIsMe 4y ago

Sure, but a police officer has much (much) more power than 5 teachers. I can't remember the last time teachers benefited from qualified immunity or civil forfeiture.

Jensson 4y ago
I have never heard people chant "Defund the schools" though, so it seems like teachers has much more political support and power overall. Qualified immunity isn't thanks to police unions, the supreme court decided that because they thought that policemen shouldn't risk go to jail just for doing their job, the police union didn't seem to have much involvement.
- syzarian 4y ago
  They don’t chant “defund schools”. Instead the slogan is “school choice”. There has been a campaign for the last 50 years to erode public education.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    Are there no teachers in private schools?
    - syzarian 4y ago
      We aren’t talking about private schools. We are talking about whether or not there is a chant similar to “defund the police” for public schools. The answer is yes there is.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  I have never heard people chant "Defund the schools" though Sounds like you don't live in a red state. https://newrepublic.com/article/163817/desantis-republicans-end-public-education https://newrepublic.com/article/163817/desantis-republicans-... https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2021/07/07/how-gop-wants-defund-public-schools-over-critical-race-theory/7895418002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2021... https://www.thenation.com/article/society/gop-populist-defund-rural-schools/ https://www.thenation.com/article/society/gop-populist-defun... https://www.thedailybeast.com/betsy-devos-and-the-gops-plan-to-destroy-public-schools https://www.thedailybeast.com/betsy-devos-and-the-gops-plan-... https://www.salon.com/2022/07/01/schools-out-forever-arizona-moves-to-public-education-with-new-universal-voucher-law/ https://www.salon.com/2022/07/01/schools-out-forever-arizona... https://www.texasobserver.org/disrupt-deplete-destroy/ https://www.texasobserver.org/disrupt-deplete-destroy/
- swatcoder 4y ago
  > I have never heard people chant “Defund the schools” Hah! That says more about what you listen to than what’s being said. People have been fighting loudly to pull money out of public schools for longer than most people on this site have been alive. It provided more election debate and more massive ad and PR campaigns through the 80’s and 90’s than any police reform politic could dream of, and it continues to be a major part of today’s more crowded debate.
- EngManagerIsMe 4y ago
  To be fair, police kill a lot more people than teachers do.

syzarian 4y ago

Power as it pertains to a union is about their ability to negotiate working conditions, pay, and worker protections. I know of no large group of public employees with better worker protections.

Jensson 4y ago
What worker protection has the police union negotiated that the teachers union failed to get? Qualified immunity isn't due to the unions, and there is no reason to give it to teachers since teachers aren't required to be violent to do their job. If teachers were required to be violent then they would have qualified immunity as well.
- syzarian 4y ago
  Police hold municipalities hostage if they don’t get their way in terms of protection from prosecution for violating peoples’ civil rights and for exerting nonjudicial punishments. In my city a councilman complained about police brutality and the police purposefully responded to non violent 911 calls hours after they were made. When they would show up they would tell people to thank their councilman for the delay. Police commit more domestic violence on average and get prosecuted for this violence at a much lower rate than non police. In some municipalities police are effectively a gang.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  My police union's president has been fired from the force 3 times because he literally abused people, including children at the school he was supposed to be protecting, and each time the union sued and got him reinstated. Meanwhile teachers are fired regularly.