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You're arguing a straw man. Nowhere does it say "Full Autonomous Level 5" or whatever you are expecting - nor does it have to. They literally named it Autopilot

by Alupis 4y ago

You're arguing a straw man. Nowhere does it say "Full Autonomous Level 5" or whatever you are expecting - nor does it have to. They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. The facts are - Tesla installed this system, called it Autopilot, told the buyers it does magical things, and people have died and probably will continue to die. I understand some people badly want Tesla to succeed no matter what. But this is silly... they chose not to call it a Driver Assist (like all the other car manufacturers) on purpose. Now Tesla reaps what it sowed...

ajross 4y ago
> They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. And again I ask for a contemporary cite relevant to the car in question where Tesla (or Mobileye) claimed it would drive autonomously. They didn't make that claim, and you know it. So... I guess your whole argument rests on the name[1] of the product[2] and not the technology? If they called it "BananaDrive" you wouldn't be upset? That seems doubtful. Look: this is a 100% vanilla distracted driver accident under cruise control, and you know it. It's not the first. It won't be the last. It happens probably every day in other makes of cars with very similar systems, and you don't care. You only care because of the name of the company that made the car. [1] Not to put a fine a point on it, but Chrysler was selling cars with "Auto-Pilot" in the 50's. People didn't freak out about those. [2] Again, to repeat: not the product being sold today or at any time over the last seven years, with which you keep trying to conflate.
- xyzcd 4y ago
  You’re incorrect on both fronts 1. Some 2014 model S were retrofitted and subject to the recent recall. The news article simply said some model S were subject to a recent FSD recall. It did not say whether the one in the recent fatal accident was 2. Musk as recently as 2021 was bragging that “autopilot” specifically (not FSD) reduces crash rates by a “factor of 10” This is completely 100% untrue The stats Elon continues to tout currently about safety are a complete joke, and not normalized by road type, driver age, or condition It’s like telling someone drug A given to cohort 1 had no side effects, while drug B given to cohort B caused tons of bad effects, and leaving out the fact that cohort A is 20 year old men and cohort B is 95 year old men You’re not a victim. Please allow people to have normal discussions that are had about all cars.
  - ajross 4y ago
    > 1. Some 2014 model S were retrofitted and subject to the recent recall. No, they weren't. That generation of cars can get a HW3 upgrade[1], but that's only offered to cars that purchased FSD. No FSD was installed on a 2014 vehicle, ergo no 2014 S's have HW3. Is it possible someone got an aftermarket part installed? Sure. Is it likely? Be real. It is correct for a journalist (or you) to say that this car was subject to the FSD recall? Absolutely not. > 2. Musk as recently as 2021 was bragging that “autopilot” specifically (not FSD) reduces crash rates by a “factor of 10” [...] This is completely 100% untrue They literally release a safety report with data to back that kind of thing up (honestly not sure which Musk statement you're talking about, you didn't cite, but the numbers are indeed in the order of magnitude range). Yelling about it in an HN comment from a 1-comment green account doesn't make it "100% untrue". [1] Edit: post-some-research, even that's not necessarily true. Apparently early S's lacked the camera mounting points and can't be upgraded for mechanical reasons. Exactly where the cutover happened isn't clear.

by Alupis 4y ago

ajross 4y ago

> They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. And again I ask for a contemporary cite relevant to the car in question where Tesla (or Mobileye) claimed it would drive autonomously. They didn't make that claim, and you know it. So... I guess your whole argument rests on the name[1] of the product[2] and not the technology? If they called it "BananaDrive" you wouldn't be upset? That seems doubtful. Look: this is a 100% vanilla distracted driver accident under cruise control, and you know it. It's not the first. It won't be the last. It happens probably every day in other makes of cars with very similar systems, and you don't care. You only care because of the name of the company that made the car. [1] Not to put a fine a point on it, but Chrysler was selling cars with "Auto-Pilot" in the 50's. People didn't freak out about those. [2] Again, to repeat: not the product being sold today or at any time over the last seven years, with which you keep trying to conflate.

xyzcd 4y ago
You’re incorrect on both fronts 1. Some 2014 model S were retrofitted and subject to the recent recall. The news article simply said some model S were subject to a recent FSD recall. It did not say whether the one in the recent fatal accident was 2. Musk as recently as 2021 was bragging that “autopilot” specifically (not FSD) reduces crash rates by a “factor of 10” This is completely 100% untrue The stats Elon continues to tout currently about safety are a complete joke, and not normalized by road type, driver age, or condition It’s like telling someone drug A given to cohort 1 had no side effects, while drug B given to cohort B caused tons of bad effects, and leaving out the fact that cohort A is 20 year old men and cohort B is 95 year old men You’re not a victim. Please allow people to have normal discussions that are had about all cars.
- ajross 4y ago
  > 1. Some 2014 model S were retrofitted and subject to the recent recall. No, they weren't. That generation of cars can get a HW3 upgrade[1], but that's only offered to cars that purchased FSD. No FSD was installed on a 2014 vehicle, ergo no 2014 S's have HW3. Is it possible someone got an aftermarket part installed? Sure. Is it likely? Be real. It is correct for a journalist (or you) to say that this car was subject to the FSD recall? Absolutely not. > 2. Musk as recently as 2021 was bragging that “autopilot” specifically (not FSD) reduces crash rates by a “factor of 10” [...] This is completely 100% untrue They literally release a safety report with data to back that kind of thing up (honestly not sure which Musk statement you're talking about, you didn't cite, but the numbers are indeed in the order of magnitude range). Yelling about it in an HN comment from a 1-comment green account doesn't make it "100% untrue". [1] Edit: post-some-research, even that's not necessarily true. Apparently early S's lacked the camera mounting points and can't be upgraded for mechanical reasons. Exactly where the cutover happened isn't clear.