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Pretty much. Also this paragraph borders on deliberate misinformation: "The car involved in the fire truck crash was a 2014 Tesla Model S. Recently, Tesla, whi

by ajross 4y ago

Pretty much. Also this paragraph borders on deliberate misinformation: "The car involved in the fire truck crash was a 2014 Tesla Model S. Recently, Tesla, which is owned by controversial Twitter CEO Elon Musk, recalled over 360,000 cars because of issues with the “Full Self-Driving” feature. The Model S was one of the models recalled." No 2014 Model S's were sold with FSD. The product didn't exist yet. It's not subject to that recall notice, so the final sentence is just outright incorrect. At this point I just give up on the ability of society to deal rationally with anything involving "Tesla". This was a decade-old car with a lanekeeping solution along the lines of what normal cars have today. Absolutely no one ever billed it as an autonomous vehicle. And, like normal cars today, sometimes they end up in fatal crashes. But no one cares if a Lexus on cruise control hits someone. That's not news. Doesn't matter. My car drives me around anyway. Haters gonna hate, as it were.

jjtheblunt 4y ago
> which is owned by controversial Twitter CEO Elon Musk this reporter didn't know it's a public company, not owned by Musk?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pests 4y ago
  Did you miss the news last year where Elon bought the company? Its not a public company anymore and is indeed owned by Musk. It has been delisted from the NYSE and shareholders were paid out at $54.20 a share.
  - xyzelement 4y ago
    You are talking about Twitter, the person you responded to and the story they are referring to was about Tesla.
    - pests 4y ago
      Oh duh, I mis-read that quote. Apologies.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    The article said Musk owns Tesla, which is false.
Alupis 4y ago
> Absolutely no one ever billed it as an autonomous vehicle The CEO of Mobileye thought very differently, and walked away from a Tesla partnership after Musk's rhetoric killed someone in 2016[1]. Mobileye CEO Amnon Shashua claiming that Tesla "was pushing the envelope in terms of safety" and that Autopilot is a "driver assistance system" and not a "driverless system" Musk has been calling it Autopilot since day one, and promising features and safety levels that are completely unobtainable even today. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobileye#Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobileye#Tesla
- ajross 4y ago
  The fact that you are citing what Mobileye said Tesla said[1] instead of what Tesla said seems unconvincing. Link to marketing material or documentation or... anything (even a Musk tweet, I guess) that bills a 2014-era Tesla as an autonomous vehicle? You know that doesn't exist. But it doesn't matter, because putting "Tesla" in the headlines drives people absolutely bananas. We'll literally engage in screaming matches on the internet about whether it's fair to blame brand new autonomy software for an accident involving a nine-year-old vehicle running a tech stack from a different company. Because Tesla. [1] After a very public split where Mobileye lost their biggest customer, they still haven't really recovered and at this point are way behind Tesla, Waymo and Cruise.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    You're arguing a straw man. Nowhere does it say "Full Autonomous Level 5" or whatever you are expecting - nor does it have to. They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. The facts are - Tesla installed this system, called it Autopilot, told the buyers it does magical things, and people have died and probably will continue to die. I understand some people badly want Tesla to succeed no matter what. But this is silly... they chose not to call it a Driver Assist (like all the other car manufacturers) on purpose. Now Tesla reaps what it sowed...
    - ajross 4y ago
      > They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. And again I ask for a contemporary cite relevant to the car in question where Tesla (or Mobileye) claimed it would drive autonomously. They didn't make that claim, and you know it. So... I guess your whole argument rests on the name[1] of the product[2] and not the technology? If they called it "BananaDrive" you wouldn't be upset? That seems doubtful. Look: this is a 100% vanilla distracted driver accident under cruise control, and you know it. It's not the first. It won't be the last. It happens probably every day in other makes of cars with very similar systems, and you don't care. You only care because of the name of the company that made the car. [1] Not to put a fine a point on it, but Chrysler was selling cars with "Auto-Pilot" in the 50's. People didn't freak out about those. [2] Again, to repeat: not the product being sold today or at any time over the last seven years, with which you keep trying to conflate.
GreedClarifies 4y ago
Agreed, it is all tribalism now. Painful. Also, I love my car driving me around. It's the reason I bought it and it is amazing.
- enslavedrobot 4y ago
  Agreed. They just released their V11 FSD revision and it's amazing. Yet instead of seeing a post about it here people are talking about a 2014 Model S crash. Don't sleep on FSD. I've had it for a year and a half and it's improved dramatically in that time.

by ajross 4y ago

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> which is owned by controversial Twitter CEO Elon Musk this reporter didn't know it's a public company, not owned by Musk?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pests 4y ago
Did you miss the news last year where Elon bought the company? Its not a public company anymore and is indeed owned by Musk. It has been delisted from the NYSE and shareholders were paid out at $54.20 a share.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  You are talking about Twitter, the person you responded to and the story they are referring to was about Tesla.
  - pests 4y ago
    Oh duh, I mis-read that quote. Apologies.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  The article said Musk owns Tesla, which is false.

Alupis 4y ago

> Absolutely no one ever billed it as an autonomous vehicle The CEO of Mobileye thought very differently, and walked away from a Tesla partnership after Musk's rhetoric killed someone in 2016[1]. Mobileye CEO Amnon Shashua claiming that Tesla "was pushing the envelope in terms of safety" and that Autopilot is a "driver assistance system" and not a "driverless system" Musk has been calling it Autopilot since day one, and promising features and safety levels that are completely unobtainable even today. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobileye#Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobileye#Tesla

ajross 4y ago
The fact that you are citing what Mobileye said Tesla said[1] instead of what Tesla said seems unconvincing. Link to marketing material or documentation or... anything (even a Musk tweet, I guess) that bills a 2014-era Tesla as an autonomous vehicle? You know that doesn't exist. But it doesn't matter, because putting "Tesla" in the headlines drives people absolutely bananas. We'll literally engage in screaming matches on the internet about whether it's fair to blame brand new autonomy software for an accident involving a nine-year-old vehicle running a tech stack from a different company. Because Tesla. [1] After a very public split where Mobileye lost their biggest customer, they still haven't really recovered and at this point are way behind Tesla, Waymo and Cruise.
- Alupis 4y ago
  You're arguing a straw man. Nowhere does it say "Full Autonomous Level 5" or whatever you are expecting - nor does it have to. They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. The facts are - Tesla installed this system, called it Autopilot, told the buyers it does magical things, and people have died and probably will continue to die. I understand some people badly want Tesla to succeed no matter what. But this is silly... they chose not to call it a Driver Assist (like all the other car manufacturers) on purpose. Now Tesla reaps what it sowed...
  - ajross 4y ago
    > They literally named it Autopilot and told people it could drive down the freeway without user input. And again I ask for a contemporary cite relevant to the car in question where Tesla (or Mobileye) claimed it would drive autonomously. They didn't make that claim, and you know it. So... I guess your whole argument rests on the name[1] of the product[2] and not the technology? If they called it "BananaDrive" you wouldn't be upset? That seems doubtful. Look: this is a 100% vanilla distracted driver accident under cruise control, and you know it. It's not the first. It won't be the last. It happens probably every day in other makes of cars with very similar systems, and you don't care. You only care because of the name of the company that made the car. [1] Not to put a fine a point on it, but Chrysler was selling cars with "Auto-Pilot" in the 50's. People didn't freak out about those. [2] Again, to repeat: not the product being sold today or at any time over the last seven years, with which you keep trying to conflate.

GreedClarifies 4y ago

Agreed, it is all tribalism now. Painful. Also, I love my car driving me around. It's the reason I bought it and it is amazing.

enslavedrobot 4y ago
Agreed. They just released their V11 FSD revision and it's amazing. Yet instead of seeing a post about it here people are talking about a 2014 Model S crash. Don't sleep on FSD. I've had it for a year and a half and it's improved dramatically in that time.