4 ms·

Whether it's policy, technology, or medicine (I don't quite understand why medicine would reduce the metric we care about, number of surviving children) doesn't

Whether it's policy, technology, or medicine (I don't quite understand why medicine would reduce the metric we care about, number of surviving children) doesn't matter. There may be a solution a nation could take, but immigration enables it (or rather, its economy) to persist, without addressing the falling birth rates, at the price of slowly giving way to a new, immigrant population.

nobody9999 4y ago
>at the price of slowly giving way to a new, immigrant population. What's wrong with immigrants? My father was an immigrant. My mother's parents were immigrants. Babies are "immigrants" from someone's womb. I'd note that all humans are immigrants to every place except Africa. Further, I'd ask why you care where the person (or their parents) who installs the side view mirror on your car at the factory comes from? What practical difference does that make in your life? Well, except for being able to get decent Pho[0], quality bagels[1], pizza[2], pasta[3] and all manner of other stuff that immigrants brought/bring to this country. Making our culture richer and more interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta#History
- nhchris 4y ago
  There's nothing wrong with immigrants. What's wrong is the old population will disappear, or be put in the perilous position of being a minority in the only territory they can call their own. Look at Ukraine while it was part of the Soviet union for how dangerous that can be - or the Rohingya, or Uyghurs, or countless other examples. Not to mention it is in the interest of any organism, any living being, to produce descendants, so any policy that promises long-term sub-replacement fertility is dangerous from that point of view alone. It frankly boggles the mind this is something I have to explain.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >There's nothing wrong with immigrants. What's wrong is the old population will disappear, or be put in the perilous position of being a minority in the only territory they can call their own. Look at Ukraine while it was part of the Soviet union for how dangerous that can be - or the Rohingya, or Uyghurs, or countless other examples. Americans aren't Americans because we live in America. Americans are Americans because we believe (or should. Do you?) in the Constitution and the rule of law. Our society is based on those things, not place of birth. One doesn't need to be born here for that. In making that argument, you're dissing our culture, society and ideals. And which "minority" are you talking about? The Jews? The Italians? The Irish? The Russians? The WASPs? They're all minorities here. As are you. Except the part about being Americans. But you seem to not care about that part. Why is that? "White" isn't an ethnicity or a separate grouping. Rather it's just a specific genetic adaptation to colder climates in the amount of melanin in the skin. What's more, Natalie Portman from Israel, Arnold Schwarzenegger from Austria, Sergei Brin from Russia, Albert Einstein from Germany, Cesar Chavez from Mexico, Mila Kunis from Ukraine, Joseph Pulitzer from Hungary, Madeline Allbright from the Czech Republic and many, many others from every continent except Antarctica are all just as American as you or any other American. >Not to mention it is in the interest of any organism, any living being, to produce descendants, so any policy that promises long-term sub-replacement fertility is dangerous from that point of view alone. It frankly boggles the mind this is something I have to explain. And we do. The human population has grown from ~2.5 Billion to almost 8.5 Billion since 1950. I think that covers the "producing descendants" bit. Because every human is very closely related[0]. In fact, so much so that a member of a hunter-gatherer tribe in the Amazon is likely to be more genetically similar to you than your next door neighbor or mailman[1]. And so, we're doing just fine in keeping Homo Sapiens (the only human "race" currently in existence, although broadly, our genomes also contain genes from Neanderthals and Denisovans) going -- more than tripling the population in ~70 years. tl;dr: You're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Yuck. [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-more-closely-related-than-we-commonly-think/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-mo... [1] https://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/4/602.long https://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/4/602.long
    - 4y ago

nobody9999 4y ago

>at the price of slowly giving way to a new, immigrant population. What's wrong with immigrants? My father was an immigrant. My mother's parents were immigrants. Babies are "immigrants" from someone's womb. I'd note that all humans are immigrants to every place except Africa. Further, I'd ask why you care where the person (or their parents) who installs the side view mirror on your car at the factory comes from? What practical difference does that make in your life? Well, except for being able to get decent Pho[0], quality bagels[1], pizza[2], pasta[3] and all manner of other stuff that immigrants brought/bring to this country. Making our culture richer and more interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta#History

nhchris 4y ago
There's nothing wrong with immigrants. What's wrong is the old population will disappear, or be put in the perilous position of being a minority in the only territory they can call their own. Look at Ukraine while it was part of the Soviet union for how dangerous that can be - or the Rohingya, or Uyghurs, or countless other examples. Not to mention it is in the interest of any organism, any living being, to produce descendants, so any policy that promises long-term sub-replacement fertility is dangerous from that point of view alone. It frankly boggles the mind this is something I have to explain.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >There's nothing wrong with immigrants. What's wrong is the old population will disappear, or be put in the perilous position of being a minority in the only territory they can call their own. Look at Ukraine while it was part of the Soviet union for how dangerous that can be - or the Rohingya, or Uyghurs, or countless other examples. Americans aren't Americans because we live in America. Americans are Americans because we believe (or should. Do you?) in the Constitution and the rule of law. Our society is based on those things, not place of birth. One doesn't need to be born here for that. In making that argument, you're dissing our culture, society and ideals. And which "minority" are you talking about? The Jews? The Italians? The Irish? The Russians? The WASPs? They're all minorities here. As are you. Except the part about being Americans. But you seem to not care about that part. Why is that? "White" isn't an ethnicity or a separate grouping. Rather it's just a specific genetic adaptation to colder climates in the amount of melanin in the skin. What's more, Natalie Portman from Israel, Arnold Schwarzenegger from Austria, Sergei Brin from Russia, Albert Einstein from Germany, Cesar Chavez from Mexico, Mila Kunis from Ukraine, Joseph Pulitzer from Hungary, Madeline Allbright from the Czech Republic and many, many others from every continent except Antarctica are all just as American as you or any other American. >Not to mention it is in the interest of any organism, any living being, to produce descendants, so any policy that promises long-term sub-replacement fertility is dangerous from that point of view alone. It frankly boggles the mind this is something I have to explain. And we do. The human population has grown from ~2.5 Billion to almost 8.5 Billion since 1950. I think that covers the "producing descendants" bit. Because every human is very closely related[0]. In fact, so much so that a member of a hunter-gatherer tribe in the Amazon is likely to be more genetically similar to you than your next door neighbor or mailman[1]. And so, we're doing just fine in keeping Homo Sapiens (the only human "race" currently in existence, although broadly, our genomes also contain genes from Neanderthals and Denisovans) going -- more than tripling the population in ~70 years. tl;dr: You're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Yuck. [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-more-closely-related-than-we-commonly-think/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-all-mo... [1] https://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/4/602.long https://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/4/602.long
  - 4y ago