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I wonder if recent price increases are related to this tax bill. Received this in my inbox 2 hours ago: > Over the past few years, card networks have incr

by jmstfv 4y ago

I wonder if recent price increases are related to this tax bill. Received this in my inbox 2 hours ago: > Over the past few years, card networks have increased the total fees that Stripe pays for card processing. Because of these costs, starting June 1, Stripe’s additional fee for international card transactions will change from 1.0% to 1.5%. There’s no change to our standard 2.9% + $0.30 pricing for US card transactions Did the cost to process foreign cards increased by 50 basis points? > Whether you win or lose a dispute, card networks charge Stripe a fee in either case. To cover these costs, starting June 1, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes Why were they covering the dispute fee in the past, then?

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Nah, Stripe just paid a bunch of folks with funny money everyone is kicking the can on making real and this is the cost of that strategy due to the mechanizations around equity comp. Tangentially, I think the card networks in general are not going to look great when the Fed's FedNow instant payments go live this summer. If you can get instant settlement up to $100k in value for a few pennies, that's a lot of volume that is going to move to new rails to avoid the ~3% tax (which is a tax on most of the current digital economy). Sure, there is a lot of value to consumers in the ~30 day float, but if merchants start passing the CC fees on (which they are legally allowed to do, and many already do)... Digital wallets might be the next step (Pay with Stripe/Paypal/ShopPay/whatevs) but there ain't much moat there either. Optimistically, it's nice to see payments moving to what it should've always been: a utility, and priced accordingly. The US joins 55 other countries with instant payment networks. Hurray!
- thedangler 4y ago
  Will this come with an API so anyone can integrate with it or will that be up to the banks? Like some Euro banks have API's to do fund transfers.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    The EU has legislation requiring such interfaces [1]. The US does not. With that said, you're likely be able to go to a technology provider (FiServ is a big one [2], but there are many in the space) who will get you plugged in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Services_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Services_Directive [2] https://www.fiserv.com/en.html https://www.fiserv.com/en.html (not in payments, but adjacent at a fintech)
- thedangler 4y ago
  As for Digital wallets, if Apple would let developers use NFC other apple certified cards and apps it would be already happening tap to pay with digital wallets.
- colesantiago 4y ago
  > Tangentially, I think the card networks in general are not going to look great when the Fed's FedNow instant payments go live this summer. This is and will be huge. With this the US is following India's pioneering UPI payment infrastructure and Brazil's (PIX) in realtime payments. Once FedNow launches, there really wouldn't be much use for card payments really and definitely no need for cryptocurrencies at all.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Maybe, I have read that credit cards result in people willing to pay higher prices. Which is supposedly why most retailers, especially large ones, do not offer discounts for debit cards, even though the transaction costs would be a lot lower.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      People are willing to spend more (Amex is famous for marketing this as to why their interchange fees are reasonable [1] [2]), not necessarily pay higher prices. Is it good that people are encouraged to spend more with certain financial instruments? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1] https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/american-express/more-retailers-accepting-amex/ https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/american-express/more-... [2] https://www.hostmerchantservices.com/articles/american-express-interchange-rates-how-do-their-rates-and-fees-differ-from-other-cards/ https://www.hostmerchantservices.com/articles/american-expre...
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Yes, spend more is more accurate than higher prices.
londons_explore 4y ago
I sell items that cost $2. The $15 dispute fee is by far my largest expense. I really wish I could set an option on my account to auto-refund any customer who disputes and not have to pay the fee.
- jmstfv 4y ago
  Do you refund upon receiving an early fraud warning? https://support.stripe.com/questions/protecting-your-business-from-fraud-and-disputes-a-guide-for-users-on-third-party-integrations#early-warnings https://support.stripe.com/questions/protecting-your-busines...
- georgel 4y ago
  Stripe is still taking 2.9% + 0.30 even if you refund in any situation. All these fees make selling low cost items prohibitive.

by jmstfv 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Nah, Stripe just paid a bunch of folks with funny money everyone is kicking the can on making real and this is the cost of that strategy due to the mechanizations around equity comp. Tangentially, I think the card networks in general are not going to look great when the Fed's FedNow instant payments go live this summer. If you can get instant settlement up to $100k in value for a few pennies, that's a lot of volume that is going to move to new rails to avoid the ~3% tax (which is a tax on most of the current digital economy). Sure, there is a lot of value to consumers in the ~30 day float, but if merchants start passing the CC fees on (which they are legally allowed to do, and many already do)... Digital wallets might be the next step (Pay with Stripe/Paypal/ShopPay/whatevs) but there ain't much moat there either. Optimistically, it's nice to see payments moving to what it should've always been: a utility, and priced accordingly. The US joins 55 other countries with instant payment networks. Hurray!

thedangler 4y ago
Will this come with an API so anyone can integrate with it or will that be up to the banks? Like some Euro banks have API's to do fund transfers.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  The EU has legislation requiring such interfaces [1]. The US does not. With that said, you're likely be able to go to a technology provider (FiServ is a big one [2], but there are many in the space) who will get you plugged in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Services_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Services_Directive [2] https://www.fiserv.com/en.html https://www.fiserv.com/en.html (not in payments, but adjacent at a fintech)
thedangler 4y ago
As for Digital wallets, if Apple would let developers use NFC other apple certified cards and apps it would be already happening tap to pay with digital wallets.
colesantiago 4y ago
> Tangentially, I think the card networks in general are not going to look great when the Fed's FedNow instant payments go live this summer. This is and will be huge. With this the US is following India's pioneering UPI payment infrastructure and Brazil's (PIX) in realtime payments. Once FedNow launches, there really wouldn't be much use for card payments really and definitely no need for cryptocurrencies at all.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Maybe, I have read that credit cards result in people willing to pay higher prices. Which is supposedly why most retailers, especially large ones, do not offer discounts for debit cards, even though the transaction costs would be a lot lower.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    People are willing to spend more (Amex is famous for marketing this as to why their interchange fees are reasonable [1] [2]), not necessarily pay higher prices. Is it good that people are encouraged to spend more with certain financial instruments? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1] https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/american-express/more-retailers-accepting-amex/ https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/american-express/more-... [2] https://www.hostmerchantservices.com/articles/american-express-interchange-rates-how-do-their-rates-and-fees-differ-from-other-cards/ https://www.hostmerchantservices.com/articles/american-expre...
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Yes, spend more is more accurate than higher prices.

londons_explore 4y ago

I sell items that cost $2. The $15 dispute fee is by far my largest expense. I really wish I could set an option on my account to auto-refund any customer who disputes and not have to pay the fee.

jmstfv 4y ago
Do you refund upon receiving an early fraud warning? https://support.stripe.com/questions/protecting-your-business-from-fraud-and-disputes-a-guide-for-users-on-third-party-integrations#early-warnings https://support.stripe.com/questions/protecting-your-busines...
georgel 4y ago
Stripe is still taking 2.9% + 0.30 even if you refund in any situation. All these fees make selling low cost items prohibitive.