4 ms·

Considering the amount of influence that police organizations exert on local elections, and their willingness to weaponize that against any politician they see

Considering the amount of influence that police organizations exert on local elections, and their willingness to weaponize that against any politician they see as a threat to their control, one might argue that it's more accurately organized crime having control over the civilian government.

rayiner 4y ago
Sorry, the US is a democracy even if you don’t like the results. Police organizations carry tremendous weight in elections because people think the police are good guys, are (correctly) more afraid of criminals than the police, and don’t really care about abuses against criminals and their associates. You can see this playing out right now in cities like Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, etc., where mayors have been defeated or come into power because people are outraged by the increase in crime.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Crime has not risen, we live in the safest time in history
  - rayiner 4y ago
    The homicide rate is within historical norms, but 50% higher than in 1950. It’s also 20% higher than in 2005.
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      Cherry picking makes backing up your biased ideas pretty easy, huh
      - dbsmith83 4y ago
        At least s/he has data, where's yours? edit: I misspoke, there is no data, but at least there is a claim with numbers that can or cannot be refuted for specific things. Your claim is really vague. How do you define "time in history"? How do you define safety?
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        Really? I haven't seen any citations I can make up numbers too. Robbery is down 76% compared with 1928 and assaults are down by 22%! Incredible! This nonsense is just reactionaries being scared, people love fear https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/excellent-beauty/201607/is-the-world-more-dangerous-now-ever https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/excellent-beauty/201...
        dbsmith83 4y ago
        That article is 7 years old, and doesn't really apply to the rise in crime people are talking about of the early 2020's. Sure, maybe taking a look at large swaths of history you could say crime is down. But no one gives a shit about that. People who are alive today remember crime 5 or 10 or 20+ years ago because that is relevant to their lives. Saying 'crime is down if you take a long look at history' is little consolation to someone who is noticing a rise in crime in their neighborhood over the last few years
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        Looking at tiny fluctuations is exactly how the cherry picking happens, there will always be fluctuations because life is dynamic. Add that to the fact that human memory is notoriously fallible and I can just call BS on the claim that crime is rising, it definitely isn't. We are more connected now than ever and fear porn is streamed into homes 24/7. Perception may have changed due to a new influx of biased information and looking at historical trend is the only rational way to measure progress. 7 years is not a long time.
        banannaise 4y ago
        The article was posted as a response to the contention that crime was up in comparison to large swaths of history. Why would it not be germane to show that crime is actually down in comparison to large swaths of history?
        dbsmith83 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- colatkinson 4y ago
  I can't speak to the other cities you listed, but living in New York I think the media narrative around Eric Adams's mayoral victory is... a bit overblown. It's true that he won 67% of the vote in the actual election [0]. But this was effectively a foregone conclusion -- his Republican opponent, Curtis Sliwa, was a man best known for owning 15 cats [1] and faking his own kidnapping [2]. The "real" election was the primary -- notably the first ever election in the city to make use of ranked-choice voting. Wiley and Garcia, the runners-up in the first round, effectively split the "progressive" vote 50/50. Morales was a significant progressive up until a few weeks before the election, at which time her campaign staff walked out citing poor working conditions, effectively ending her campaign. Looking at the final-round vote tally [3], it was 404,513 for Adams and 397,316 for Garcia -- a difference of just 7,197. He won, but just by the skin of his teeth. The population of NYC in 2021 was 8,468,000, with 4,992,792 registered to vote [4]. That doesn't exactly paint the picture of a resounding victory and a mandate to crack down on ne'er-do-wells that the Post would have you believe. It starts to look a bit more like a perceived centrist barely squeaking through by merit of being the best-known/least-objectionable candidate. This of course speaks to OP's point: do the public really crave a paternalistic figure who will come and "crack down on crime" (i.e. sign off on more... questionable overtime pay for the NYPD) or is there, for some reason, undue weight given to the narrative that just by happenstance sounds identical to SBA/PBA talking points? [0] https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/results/new-york-city/mayor https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/results/new-york-city/mayo... [1] https://nypost.com/2021/06/23/an-inside-look-into-curtis-sliwas-life-with-15-rescue-cats/ https://nypost.com/2021/06/23/an-inside-look-into-curtis-sli... [2] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-25-mn-1060-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-25-mn-1060-s... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/us/elections/results-nyc-mayor-primary.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/us/elections/... [4] https://vote.nyc/sites/default/files/pdf/vote/2021/county_feb21.pdf https://vote.nyc/sites/default/files/pdf/vote/2021/county_fe...
- gowld 4y ago
  Gangs in the police department aren't criminals commiting crimes?
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    Not according to reactionary conservatives

rayiner 4y ago

Sorry, the US is a democracy even if you don’t like the results. Police organizations carry tremendous weight in elections because people think the police are good guys, are (correctly) more afraid of criminals than the police, and don’t really care about abuses against criminals and their associates. You can see this playing out right now in cities like Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, etc., where mayors have been defeated or come into power because people are outraged by the increase in crime.

kevviiinn 4y ago
Crime has not risen, we live in the safest time in history
- rayiner 4y ago
  The homicide rate is within historical norms, but 50% higher than in 1950. It’s also 20% higher than in 2005.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    Cherry picking makes backing up your biased ideas pretty easy, huh
    - dbsmith83 4y ago
      At least s/he has data, where's yours? edit: I misspoke, there is no data, but at least there is a claim with numbers that can or cannot be refuted for specific things. Your claim is really vague. How do you define "time in history"? How do you define safety?
      - kevviiinn 4y ago
        Really? I haven't seen any citations I can make up numbers too. Robbery is down 76% compared with 1928 and assaults are down by 22%! Incredible! This nonsense is just reactionaries being scared, people love fear https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/excellent-beauty/201607/is-the-world-more-dangerous-now-ever https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/excellent-beauty/201...
        dbsmith83 4y ago
        That article is 7 years old, and doesn't really apply to the rise in crime people are talking about of the early 2020's. Sure, maybe taking a look at large swaths of history you could say crime is down. But no one gives a shit about that. People who are alive today remember crime 5 or 10 or 20+ years ago because that is relevant to their lives. Saying 'crime is down if you take a long look at history' is little consolation to someone who is noticing a rise in crime in their neighborhood over the last few years
        kevviiinn 4y ago
        Looking at tiny fluctuations is exactly how the cherry picking happens, there will always be fluctuations because life is dynamic. Add that to the fact that human memory is notoriously fallible and I can just call BS on the claim that crime is rising, it definitely isn't. We are more connected now than ever and fear porn is streamed into homes 24/7. Perception may have changed due to a new influx of biased information and looking at historical trend is the only rational way to measure progress. 7 years is not a long time.
        banannaise 4y ago
        The article was posted as a response to the contention that crime was up in comparison to large swaths of history. Why would it not be germane to show that crime is actually down in comparison to large swaths of history?
        dbsmith83 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
colatkinson 4y ago
I can't speak to the other cities you listed, but living in New York I think the media narrative around Eric Adams's mayoral victory is... a bit overblown. It's true that he won 67% of the vote in the actual election [0]. But this was effectively a foregone conclusion -- his Republican opponent, Curtis Sliwa, was a man best known for owning 15 cats [1] and faking his own kidnapping [2]. The "real" election was the primary -- notably the first ever election in the city to make use of ranked-choice voting. Wiley and Garcia, the runners-up in the first round, effectively split the "progressive" vote 50/50. Morales was a significant progressive up until a few weeks before the election, at which time her campaign staff walked out citing poor working conditions, effectively ending her campaign. Looking at the final-round vote tally [3], it was 404,513 for Adams and 397,316 for Garcia -- a difference of just 7,197. He won, but just by the skin of his teeth. The population of NYC in 2021 was 8,468,000, with 4,992,792 registered to vote [4]. That doesn't exactly paint the picture of a resounding victory and a mandate to crack down on ne'er-do-wells that the Post would have you believe. It starts to look a bit more like a perceived centrist barely squeaking through by merit of being the best-known/least-objectionable candidate. This of course speaks to OP's point: do the public really crave a paternalistic figure who will come and "crack down on crime" (i.e. sign off on more... questionable overtime pay for the NYPD) or is there, for some reason, undue weight given to the narrative that just by happenstance sounds identical to SBA/PBA talking points? [0] https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/results/new-york-city/mayor https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/results/new-york-city/mayo... [1] https://nypost.com/2021/06/23/an-inside-look-into-curtis-sliwas-life-with-15-rescue-cats/ https://nypost.com/2021/06/23/an-inside-look-into-curtis-sli... [2] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-25-mn-1060-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-25-mn-1060-s... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/us/elections/results-nyc-mayor-primary.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/22/us/elections/... [4] https://vote.nyc/sites/default/files/pdf/vote/2021/county_feb21.pdf https://vote.nyc/sites/default/files/pdf/vote/2021/county_fe...
gowld 4y ago
Gangs in the police department aren't criminals commiting crimes?
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Not according to reactionary conservatives