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> RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by ha

> RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by hand (!). They can't seem to pour a flat enough concrete pad for forklifts to run atop. Do you have a source for that. The last part (especially) is pretty unbelievable. I would assume that the techniques for pouring flat concrete isn't new, and even if they didn't have it, they could just make forklifts with bigger wheels or something. For instance, here's a US military forklift driving on gravel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forklift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forkl.... I do understand the Russians are much more focused on rail for military transport compared to the US, which then let them make design choices that have made it hard to switch to truck transport.

Balgair 4y ago
I'm unsure of what source would be appropriate here. I can't point you to a lack of a thing, by definition.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I'm unsure of what source would be appropriate here. I can't point you to a lack of a thing, by definition. 1. You can point to a source with some authority talking about the lack of a thing. Which shouldn't be too hard, since, unless you're ex-Russian Army logistics, you must have learned those claims from somewhere. 2. You can point to a source talking talking about Russian Army logistics, that shows them "moving things by hand" when forklifts would be more appropriate. 3. You can point to a source talking about how all forklifts require really flat concrete, and not all countries can make it because [reasons]. However, you probably can't do that because that would contradict the example I gave of a forklift operating on gravel.
  - Balgair 4y ago
    Woah. Ok dude, I'll try to help you out here, but be advised that I am not a super duper expert on these things. Just a rando on HN. Most of my evidence here is fueled by what I've been seeing and hearing via the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm, thankfully, not in theater. That said, these sources do seem to be 'experts' of some sort or another behind their own fog of war: War on the Rocks, podcast and online Foreign Policy Magazine, online edition Washington Post, print and online New York Times, print and online Philips P O'Brien, publications and twitter Trent Telenko, interviews and podcasts and twitter ChrisO_wiki, twitter Go ahead and look in the older work if you're curious to find more out about the logistical mountain that RF is facing. The concrete thing, though a bit curious, does seem to bear out in photos of their ammo dumps and RF's inability to cure a pad before rebar is stolen (WaPo, NYT, and ChrisO_wiki are good on this issue). Gravel isn't going to work for such repeated use in wet conditions. To move those loads you'd need very large tires to distribute the weight, something like a JCB. Something that RF also seems to be without. Like, they really do seem to be that corrupt and incompetent.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      A half dozen general references to things like the New York Times don't count as a source for the claim, since it's totally impractical for someone to track down where you got your information and read more. > The concrete thing, though a bit curious, does seem to bear out in photos of their ammo dumps and RF's inability to cure a pad before rebar is stolen (WaPo, NYT, and ChrisO_wiki are good on this issue). However, the reasoning you give here makes the claim more credible, since it makes clear the problem is corruption not technology.

Balgair 4y ago

I'm unsure of what source would be appropriate here. I can't point you to a lack of a thing, by definition.

tablespoon 4y ago
> I'm unsure of what source would be appropriate here. I can't point you to a lack of a thing, by definition. 1. You can point to a source with some authority talking about the lack of a thing. Which shouldn't be too hard, since, unless you're ex-Russian Army logistics, you must have learned those claims from somewhere. 2. You can point to a source talking talking about Russian Army logistics, that shows them "moving things by hand" when forklifts would be more appropriate. 3. You can point to a source talking about how all forklifts require really flat concrete, and not all countries can make it because [reasons]. However, you probably can't do that because that would contradict the example I gave of a forklift operating on gravel.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Woah. Ok dude, I'll try to help you out here, but be advised that I am not a super duper expert on these things. Just a rando on HN. Most of my evidence here is fueled by what I've been seeing and hearing via the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm, thankfully, not in theater. That said, these sources do seem to be 'experts' of some sort or another behind their own fog of war: War on the Rocks, podcast and online Foreign Policy Magazine, online edition Washington Post, print and online New York Times, print and online Philips P O'Brien, publications and twitter Trent Telenko, interviews and podcasts and twitter ChrisO_wiki, twitter Go ahead and look in the older work if you're curious to find more out about the logistical mountain that RF is facing. The concrete thing, though a bit curious, does seem to bear out in photos of their ammo dumps and RF's inability to cure a pad before rebar is stolen (WaPo, NYT, and ChrisO_wiki are good on this issue). Gravel isn't going to work for such repeated use in wet conditions. To move those loads you'd need very large tires to distribute the weight, something like a JCB. Something that RF also seems to be without. Like, they really do seem to be that corrupt and incompetent.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    A half dozen general references to things like the New York Times don't count as a source for the claim, since it's totally impractical for someone to track down where you got your information and read more. > The concrete thing, though a bit curious, does seem to bear out in photos of their ammo dumps and RF's inability to cure a pad before rebar is stolen (WaPo, NYT, and ChrisO_wiki are good on this issue). However, the reasoning you give here makes the claim more credible, since it makes clear the problem is corruption not technology.