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> I'm very concerned that the US government will set a precedent for regulating what apps citizens are allowed to use. Totally different topic, but it was said

by mk89 4y ago

> I'm very concerned that the US government will set a precedent for regulating what apps citizens are allowed to use. Totally different topic, but it was said the same about covid regulations, how we were becoming like China, how lockdowns were supposed to limit our freedom etc. We're basically back to the same old, and our freedom is "back". I believe that the US government for the first time is really challenged by something and they don't know how to regulate it, because it goes fundamentally against the doctrine of freedom of speech etc. "The West is now blocking apps?" EU regulations are nice and all, but GDPR is so easy to break, and from time to time you pay the fine, all good. In the meantime, tons of data about your citizens go away. Can you ask for that data back? It's gone. That's why this is so hard to regulate. And the right to be forgotten, well, prove it...especially in the cloud, if the application servers are hosted in a cloud provider owned by or government-friendly. As I mentioned in a previous post, scandals concerning EU/US is just pure political BS to sell newspapers. Even if there are regulations, it's "acceptable" if from time to time a company breaches that "trust". It can even be convenient up to a certain point (but I don't work in governments etc., this is just the way I see it). EDIT: the only time they probably did something similar was against piracy/p2p/blocking emule and all that :) but we all know money moves mountains

mrtksn 4y ago
> EU regulations are nice and all, but GDPR is so easy to break The good thing about it is that you give them a chance to comply and ease your concerns. If they fail to do so, you then you can ban them for actually failing to do something instead of being Chinese or making you nervous or something. This makes all the difference. It's all about freely operating within the rule of law or leaving it to some bureaucrats gut that some app can be dangerous.
- mk89 4y ago
  > The good thing about it is that you give them a chance to comply and ease your concerns. If they fail to do so, you then you can ban them for actually failing to do something instead of being Chinese or making you nervous or something. This makes all the difference. That's what US is doing, if I got it right. Tiktok apparently is not playing by the rules, hence a ban. Not today, maybe tomorrow... who knows.
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    Which rules?
idiotsecant 4y ago
You seem to be making several points here which as far as I can tell boil down to the following: - the COVID pandemic reduced some of our freedoms, but now they are back. - GPDR is not perfect regulation. It has holes that let bad behavior sneak through. RE: Your first point. This is an apples to oranges comparison. COVID restrictions were never anything unusual - the CDC has had legal authority to enforce quarantine for a very long time. It used those powers ascribed to it by law, and then stopped doing so when it was no longer needed. That's not at all what this thread is about, which is the government deciding that certain applications are unacceptable for it's citizens by fiat. RE: Your second point. The EU has much stronger protections under GPDR than if it didn't exist. The answer to an imperfect regulation is not to abandon the regulation, it's to improve it. That's why we have a process to build new laws or change them. To solve problems. It's like saying the problem with your car is that it is low on oil, so instead of refilling the oil you decide to just walk.
- mk89 4y ago
  > the CDC has had legal authority to enforce quarantine for a very long time. I am not living in the US, however in Europe it was hell. And it was decided by the governments from each country. If I recall, some regulations became even EU-based, like traveling. We're still West, although a bit more east :) It was not about an application you have on your phone, true, but governments are the ones paid for seeing the long term vision: if citizens die (because of covid) or there is a national security issue (because another country is milking your citizens' data), you have to do something about it. This is why I compared those two topics, albeit different. For me there is no loss of freedom in either case, but I can understand those who feel their freedom taken away. Regarding the second point, I love the fact there is the GDPR. And like you I agree it must be improved. The question is: what can you do in this case? We're talking about bit and bytes flowing through cables. How do users make sure that companies are respecting the laws? It's basically impossible. And that's when governments become aggressive: we need our whatsapp, ... we need to stop tiktok...and all that talk that might seem from unfortunate (fascist) times.
  - idiotsecant 4y ago

by mk89 4y ago

mrtksn 4y ago

> EU regulations are nice and all, but GDPR is so easy to break The good thing about it is that you give them a chance to comply and ease your concerns. If they fail to do so, you then you can ban them for actually failing to do something instead of being Chinese or making you nervous or something. This makes all the difference. It's all about freely operating within the rule of law or leaving it to some bureaucrats gut that some app can be dangerous.

mk89 4y ago
> The good thing about it is that you give them a chance to comply and ease your concerns. If they fail to do so, you then you can ban them for actually failing to do something instead of being Chinese or making you nervous or something. This makes all the difference. That's what US is doing, if I got it right. Tiktok apparently is not playing by the rules, hence a ban. Not today, maybe tomorrow... who knows.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  Which rules?

idiotsecant 4y ago

You seem to be making several points here which as far as I can tell boil down to the following: - the COVID pandemic reduced some of our freedoms, but now they are back. - GPDR is not perfect regulation. It has holes that let bad behavior sneak through. RE: Your first point. This is an apples to oranges comparison. COVID restrictions were never anything unusual - the CDC has had legal authority to enforce quarantine for a very long time. It used those powers ascribed to it by law, and then stopped doing so when it was no longer needed. That's not at all what this thread is about, which is the government deciding that certain applications are unacceptable for it's citizens by fiat. RE: Your second point. The EU has much stronger protections under GPDR than if it didn't exist. The answer to an imperfect regulation is not to abandon the regulation, it's to improve it. That's why we have a process to build new laws or change them. To solve problems. It's like saying the problem with your car is that it is low on oil, so instead of refilling the oil you decide to just walk.

mk89 4y ago
> the CDC has had legal authority to enforce quarantine for a very long time. I am not living in the US, however in Europe it was hell. And it was decided by the governments from each country. If I recall, some regulations became even EU-based, like traveling. We're still West, although a bit more east :) It was not about an application you have on your phone, true, but governments are the ones paid for seeing the long term vision: if citizens die (because of covid) or there is a national security issue (because another country is milking your citizens' data), you have to do something about it. This is why I compared those two topics, albeit different. For me there is no loss of freedom in either case, but I can understand those who feel their freedom taken away. Regarding the second point, I love the fact there is the GDPR. And like you I agree it must be improved. The question is: what can you do in this case? We're talking about bit and bytes flowing through cables. How do users make sure that companies are respecting the laws? It's basically impossible. And that's when governments become aggressive: we need our whatsapp, ... we need to stop tiktok...and all that talk that might seem from unfortunate (fascist) times.
- idiotsecant 4y ago