4 ms·

It's kind of funny to me that almost everyone I talk kind of knows TikTok is bad, but in a way we really don't know what to do with. It kind of makes me apprec

It's kind of funny to me that almost everyone I talk kind of knows TikTok is bad, but in a way we really don't know what to do with. It kind of makes me appreciate that there were lots of times we banned things after they crossed an arbitrary line of danger. Alcohol was fine until hard liquor was invented. Child work was expected, until factories came along. In a way, I almost think of TikTok as a reverse Opium War. Opium was already a not uncommon vice in China until the British introduced much more potent strains. TikTok not being fundamentally different than the other tech that preceded it, just a more potent version.

bigbillheck 4y ago
> Alcohol was fine until hard liquor was invented If I catch your drift correctly you might want to read up on the history of distillation, and in particular the chronology thereof.
- coenhyde 4y ago
  I didn't interpret the OP's comment to suggest a specific order of invention, but an order of adoption / influence in a society.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    And the order of adoption was hard liquor came after prohibition
- legitster 4y ago
  I know distilling goes back to antiquity but I was only thinking of the emergence of consumer drinks in the 1600-1700s. Specifically era of the London Gin laws. I think in particular it's fascinating because this was before people really measured or understood alcohol content and they really had trouble figuring out why some drinks needed no real restrictions and yet others could destroy lives.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Nearly all the time, those specific alcohol restrictions were based in classism or racism, ie, "the poors drink that so it must be the cause of all of society's ills, but expensive wine is obviously good for me!"
    - legitster 4y ago
      Well, except hard alcohol is an order of magnitude more dangerous than wine or beer. And before public drunkenness became a problem, gin was actually the preferred drink amongst the elite for a time.
      - hirvi74 4y ago
        Does the danger not lie in the dosage? Is the actual chemical make-up of hard liquors more dangerous? I understand that it's easier to consume greater amounts of alcohol when it is in higher concentrations. Surely a person drinking a mix drink containing 2 shots in an two hours cannot be more dangerous than someone gassing 6 beers in an two hours, right?
  - telotortium 4y ago
    Islam bans "Khamr"[1] in the Quran, and the restriction has been widely, if not universally, understood to ban all (non-medicinal) alcoholic drinks since very early on in Islamic history. Even in the Old Testament, Noah gets drunk and naked. So I think people have understood that alcohol can cause significant social and personal problems for a long time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr
cwkoss 4y ago
The deep state whining about TikTok is the pot calling the kettle black. I think a lot of people would agree that Twitter and Instagram are worse for users. Twitter is a bunch of bullying and wrath, Instagram is jealousy and avarice: extremely effective at manufacturing insecurity. America has been colonizing the world via dominance in online industry for the past 20 years and "winning the war for data". Tiktok is a symbol of the end of this trend and american nationalists hate the idea.
luckylion 4y ago
> Alcohol was fine until hard liquor was invented. Alcohol is no longer fine? > Child work was expected, until factories came along. Doesn't that more have to do with the rising household income (thanks to productivity gains, I'd imagine) and school availability, so people could afford to let their children go to school instead of needing every hand to keep the family afloat? I've never actually used TikTok, what makes it so much more potent than other products?
- Invictus0 4y ago
  > Alcohol is no longer fine? Parent is clearly referring to Prohibition
  - legitster 4y ago
    Or even just social norms around day drinking or drinking age etc.
  - djkivi 4y ago
    Or: "No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health" https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health#:~:text=The%20risks%20and%20harms%20associated,that%20does%20not%20affect%20health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-....
    - falcolas 4y ago
      Opinion: Informing of the dangers of something is not prohibiting something.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    That was hundreds (or thousands, depending on how you look at it) of years later though, and more a reaction to religion, not new alcoholic potency.
  - schwartzworld 4y ago
    Prohibition was not in response to the invention of hard liquor. Distillation is a lot older than that.
lazyeye 4y ago
I think most people with an ounce of commonsense know exactly what to do, ban it. The problem is globalisation means the incentives for leaders is no longer in alignment with the country they govern. In a lot of cases it's far more personally lucrative to grow the Chinese economy than it is their own. And no doubt, China works very hard to ensure this is the case. And so they all hide behind the "it's complicated" argument (it's actually not). https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-china-deal-tim-cook https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi... It's enough to make you vote for a reality TV star as president...

bigbillheck 4y ago

> Alcohol was fine until hard liquor was invented If I catch your drift correctly you might want to read up on the history of distillation, and in particular the chronology thereof.

coenhyde 4y ago
I didn't interpret the OP's comment to suggest a specific order of invention, but an order of adoption / influence in a society.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  And the order of adoption was hard liquor came after prohibition
legitster 4y ago
I know distilling goes back to antiquity but I was only thinking of the emergence of consumer drinks in the 1600-1700s. Specifically era of the London Gin laws. I think in particular it's fascinating because this was before people really measured or understood alcohol content and they really had trouble figuring out why some drinks needed no real restrictions and yet others could destroy lives.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Nearly all the time, those specific alcohol restrictions were based in classism or racism, ie, "the poors drink that so it must be the cause of all of society's ills, but expensive wine is obviously good for me!"
  - legitster 4y ago
    Well, except hard alcohol is an order of magnitude more dangerous than wine or beer. And before public drunkenness became a problem, gin was actually the preferred drink amongst the elite for a time.
    - hirvi74 4y ago
      Does the danger not lie in the dosage? Is the actual chemical make-up of hard liquors more dangerous? I understand that it's easier to consume greater amounts of alcohol when it is in higher concentrations. Surely a person drinking a mix drink containing 2 shots in an two hours cannot be more dangerous than someone gassing 6 beers in an two hours, right?
- telotortium 4y ago
  Islam bans "Khamr"[1] in the Quran, and the restriction has been widely, if not universally, understood to ban all (non-medicinal) alcoholic drinks since very early on in Islamic history. Even in the Old Testament, Noah gets drunk and naked. So I think people have understood that alcohol can cause significant social and personal problems for a long time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamr

cwkoss 4y ago

The deep state whining about TikTok is the pot calling the kettle black. I think a lot of people would agree that Twitter and Instagram are worse for users. Twitter is a bunch of bullying and wrath, Instagram is jealousy and avarice: extremely effective at manufacturing insecurity. America has been colonizing the world via dominance in online industry for the past 20 years and "winning the war for data". Tiktok is a symbol of the end of this trend and american nationalists hate the idea.

luckylion 4y ago

> Alcohol was fine until hard liquor was invented. Alcohol is no longer fine? > Child work was expected, until factories came along. Doesn't that more have to do with the rising household income (thanks to productivity gains, I'd imagine) and school availability, so people could afford to let their children go to school instead of needing every hand to keep the family afloat? I've never actually used TikTok, what makes it so much more potent than other products?

Invictus0 4y ago
> Alcohol is no longer fine? Parent is clearly referring to Prohibition
- legitster 4y ago
  Or even just social norms around day drinking or drinking age etc.
- djkivi 4y ago
  Or: "No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health" https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health#:~:text=The%20risks%20and%20harms%20associated,that%20does%20not%20affect%20health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-....
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Opinion: Informing of the dangers of something is not prohibiting something.
- luckylion 4y ago
  That was hundreds (or thousands, depending on how you look at it) of years later though, and more a reaction to religion, not new alcoholic potency.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  Prohibition was not in response to the invention of hard liquor. Distillation is a lot older than that.

lazyeye 4y ago

I think most people with an ounce of commonsense know exactly what to do, ban it. The problem is globalisation means the incentives for leaders is no longer in alignment with the country they govern. In a lot of cases it's far more personally lucrative to grow the Chinese economy than it is their own. And no doubt, China works very hard to ensure this is the case. And so they all hide behind the "it's complicated" argument (it's actually not). https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-china-deal-tim-cook https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi... It's enough to make you vote for a reality TV star as president...