4 ms·

I don't think your points hold up against the example of state borders. Criminals move between states, but it's not a huge problem. The states can share infor

I don't think your points hold up against the example of state borders. Criminals move between states, but it's not a huge problem. The states can share information and allow joint action. It may require more effort to set up between nations, but it's a common thing today. Taxes work fine. If you're a resident of a state, you pay income tax to that state. So we obviously know how to find out residency. >Everytime there has been mass unorganized migration it has been a humanitarian disaster. If borders were to become easily crossable (not necessarily non-existent, but just a checkpoint to count incoming/outgoing and stop smugglers) in a day, then the next day would see mass migration in so many directions. But after that first wave calmed, I wouldn't expect mass migrations except those following humanitarian disasters. Three had migrations we see today are caused by disasters. Even when the emigrants experience terrible conditions in the receiving country, I imagine it's because their previous life was shattered and they had to quickly flee. It's not a fair comparison to people who would migrate if immigration controls were removed.

notch898a 4y ago
Consider something like 1/3 of Americans have a criminal history. Maybe 1 of 30 of those are incapable of living in society. Keeping out fugitives makes sense but I totally disagree with keeping out criminals, particularly when in much of the world criminal often just means you did something the government didn't like.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  > Consider something like 1/3 of Americans have a criminal history. really? not as in traffic tickets, but actual conviction of a crime?
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    No. Not sure sure exactly where it started, but it gets attributed to Andrew Cuomo often enough, citing the 1 in 3 number. That comes from FBI statistics, which define a criminal record to include arrests. Here is a discussion: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/aug/18/andrew-cuomo/yes-one-three-us-adults-have-criminal-record/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/aug/18/andrew-cuo...
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  That includes arrest records, not just convictions. About 3% of the population has served any time in prison, and about 8% of the population have been convicted of a felony. https://news.uga.edu/total-us-population-with-felony-convictions/ https://news.uga.edu/total-us-population-with-felony-convict...
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Are you familiar with the US immigration system? That is exactly what they consider in criminal history. What they examine includes arrests, not just convictions, so it's precisely the stat we want. See form I-485 for PR: 24. Have you EVER been arrested, cited, charged, or detained for any reason by any law enforcement officer (including but not limited to any U.S. immigration official or any official of the U.S. armed forces or U.S. Coast Guard)? I'm not sure what we're talking about if you're excluding non-convicted arrests, but it aint immigration.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Illegal crossing is generally a civil offense (I.e., misdemeanor). Generally, deportation is not an offense that prohibits you from entering again legally. What programs like Operation Streamline do is take advantage of the fact that immigrants dont understand the legal system and, under the guise of a speedier procedure, effectively coerce immigrants to acquiesce to a criminal conviction. This actually does prevent them from coming legally at a later date once deported.

notch898a 4y ago

Consider something like 1/3 of Americans have a criminal history. Maybe 1 of 30 of those are incapable of living in society. Keeping out fugitives makes sense but I totally disagree with keeping out criminals, particularly when in much of the world criminal often just means you did something the government didn't like.

andrekandre 4y ago
> Consider something like 1/3 of Americans have a criminal history. really? not as in traffic tickets, but actual conviction of a crime?
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  No. Not sure sure exactly where it started, but it gets attributed to Andrew Cuomo often enough, citing the 1 in 3 number. That comes from FBI statistics, which define a criminal record to include arrests. Here is a discussion: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/aug/18/andrew-cuomo/yes-one-three-us-adults-have-criminal-record/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/aug/18/andrew-cuo...
rootusrootus 4y ago
That includes arrest records, not just convictions. About 3% of the population has served any time in prison, and about 8% of the population have been convicted of a felony. https://news.uga.edu/total-us-population-with-felony-convictions/ https://news.uga.edu/total-us-population-with-felony-convict...
- notch898a 4y ago
  Are you familiar with the US immigration system? That is exactly what they consider in criminal history. What they examine includes arrests, not just convictions, so it's precisely the stat we want. See form I-485 for PR: 24. Have you EVER been arrested, cited, charged, or detained for any reason by any law enforcement officer (including but not limited to any U.S. immigration official or any official of the U.S. armed forces or U.S. Coast Guard)? I'm not sure what we're talking about if you're excluding non-convicted arrests, but it aint immigration.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Illegal crossing is generally a civil offense (I.e., misdemeanor). Generally, deportation is not an offense that prohibits you from entering again legally. What programs like Operation Streamline do is take advantage of the fact that immigrants dont understand the legal system and, under the guise of a speedier procedure, effectively coerce immigrants to acquiesce to a criminal conviction. This actually does prevent them from coming legally at a later date once deported.