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> They amount to a large and unregulated web of eyes on American communities — which can provide law enforcement valuable information in the event of a crime, b

> They amount to a large and unregulated web of eyes on American communities — which can provide law enforcement valuable information in the event of a crime, but also create a 24/7 recording operation that even the owners of the cameras aren’t fully aware they’ve helped to build. They drew this conclusion from a court order being served upon people who had selected "record everything" when they set up their surveillence camera?

barbazoo 4y ago
Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work. People want everything to be convenient and "cheap". Ring isn't cheap, it just appears so if you look at it per month. That's why we end up with that privacy nightmare that's Ring. People with different priorities buy different hardware that's more complicated to set up and more expensive but keeps the sensitive data local.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  > Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work In my experience they know exactly how they work, they want to record everything that happens in the street infront of their house - that is litterally what happens. Is ring etc really much more of a privacy nightmare than any other cctv? Given the wide spread use, it is easier for police to do a blanket request, but back in ye olde days the officer would stand there, look around and see all the cameras and go make requests where they saw one. End result is identical, its the same thing with a few extra steps.
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    It's a set of hurdles that I think wouldn't hurt. Plus more reasonable retention periods to limit the impact on the people around them. I think that would be positive. At least that way police have to intentionally select which cameras to pursue instead of just asking Ring for data on an entire neighborhood what I assume is happening now.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Those extra steps can often make all the difference in the world in terms of privacy protection. I object to every public place being monitored by CCTV. I would have less of an objection to every public place having a uniformed officer instead. If nothing else, at least then it would be obvious when you're being watched, so you wouldn't have to be on guard every moment.
    - ROTMetro 4y ago
      That would be a great augmented reality app. Show a virtual officer standing everywhere there are cameras.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  > Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work. Everyone I know who owns a Ring does. They don't care. Convenience always wins. People who put privacy and related rights above convenience are the exception.
yborg 4y ago
I don't understand what you find confusing about this. If a court can order that all camera footage from a citizen be provided to law enforcement at any time for any reason (in the case cited the individual wasn't a suspect, he just happened to have an external camera that might have shown an actual suspect) then you have a surveillance infrastructure. The citizen in question got tired of doing the police's job for them as they widened their dragnet, so they just demanded his entire account from Ring, which included cameras inside his home. Which Ring provided without hesitation, and the best part is that they paid for this "service".

barbazoo 4y ago

Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work. People want everything to be convenient and "cheap". Ring isn't cheap, it just appears so if you look at it per month. That's why we end up with that privacy nightmare that's Ring. People with different priorities buy different hardware that's more complicated to set up and more expensive but keeps the sensitive data local.

shapefrog 4y ago
> Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work In my experience they know exactly how they work, they want to record everything that happens in the street infront of their house - that is litterally what happens. Is ring etc really much more of a privacy nightmare than any other cctv? Given the wide spread use, it is easier for police to do a blanket request, but back in ye olde days the officer would stand there, look around and see all the cameras and go make requests where they saw one. End result is identical, its the same thing with a few extra steps.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  It's a set of hurdles that I think wouldn't hurt. Plus more reasonable retention periods to limit the impact on the people around them. I think that would be positive. At least that way police have to intentionally select which cameras to pursue instead of just asking Ring for data on an entire neighborhood what I assume is happening now.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Those extra steps can often make all the difference in the world in terms of privacy protection. I object to every public place being monitored by CCTV. I would have less of an objection to every public place having a uniformed officer instead. If nothing else, at least then it would be obvious when you're being watched, so you wouldn't have to be on guard every moment.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    That would be a great augmented reality app. Show a virtual officer standing everywhere there are cameras.
BeetleB 4y ago
> Because no one understands how those features they're paying for work. Everyone I know who owns a Ring does. They don't care. Convenience always wins. People who put privacy and related rights above convenience are the exception.

yborg 4y ago

I don't understand what you find confusing about this. If a court can order that all camera footage from a citizen be provided to law enforcement at any time for any reason (in the case cited the individual wasn't a suspect, he just happened to have an external camera that might have shown an actual suspect) then you have a surveillance infrastructure. The citizen in question got tired of doing the police's job for them as they widened their dragnet, so they just demanded his entire account from Ring, which included cameras inside his home. Which Ring provided without hesitation, and the best part is that they paid for this "service".