9 ms·

Dust XP1 switches to GPT-3.5-turbo, is now free to use

99 points by ukuina 4y ago

wahnfrieden 4y ago
They manage a cap on usage for predictability or have other means of converting early/often enough?
- bcjordan 4y ago
  Not sure about their policy/internals myself, but since GPT-3.5-turbo is 1/10th the cost of the previous model it's really hard now to run up a significant (to a funded startup) bill via legitimate usage — especially since at this phase any legit usage may be worth its weight in lessons about how the tool can be used. May be worth rate limiting / DoS protection but even then, could just cap OpenAI spending and spend the time to patch it if/when it happens (e.g. import @upstash/ratelimit or adding a quick Cloudflare rule)
  - bogwog 4y ago
    Which raises a concern about privacy, since they're obviously going to be spying on your usage, and the tool has access to potentially sensitive information in your browser tabs.
    - spolu 4y ago
      Hi, this is a fair concern. We're super early and working on a proper privacy policy as we speak. But we also provided some color about how we handle your data on our Discord. Copying it here: ``` The privacy section on the landing README remains true. We just send your requests to OpenAI and store them for debugging purposes but we don't fetch or store anything else than what is required to process your requests of course. XP1 being opensource you can also look at the code if needed, but happy to answer any question In short: - Requests (including the text dump of tabs you select) go to the Dust main platform - They are processed as part of a Dust app whose Run object is stored - The LLM query is sent to OpenAI (retention policy 30 days, not used for training) - The response is tored as part of Dust's Run object - The response is streamed back to the client ```
      - fprotthetarball 4y ago
        "store them for debugging purposes" is a bit concerning if they then become available if law enforcement requests data, or if you guys are hacked and everything leaks.
      - mustacheemperor 4y ago
        >store them for debugging purposes This project this looks great, but it's going to be a no from me until your formal policy clarifies this point. Do those requests still "include the text dump of tabs you select" when stored? It's not that I don't trust you folks, it's that I can't trust the entire wider world to not eventually break into or subpoena your debugging repository. Further up in the thread people asked your extension about privacy concerns and at least one assumed the response's included remark about storing requests for debugging must have been an AI hallucination.
  - spolu 4y ago
    Completely agreed with that. We'll revisit if needed but we don't expect it to be too much of an issue at this stage. Our goal is to gather marginally more usage to learn more about productivity use-cases using LLMs. Here's the email we sent to our users as we removed the paywall: https://twitter.com/dust4ai/status/1633484243228585988 https://twitter.com/dust4ai/status/1633484243228585988
zo1 4y ago
Chrome only? Guess I'll just have to wait/avoid for now.
- stuckkeys 4y ago
  Yeah, I noticed that also. I will watch from the sidelines for now.
meghan_rain 4y ago
How is this different from Edge the browser?
yunwal 4y ago
Why would anyone trust a free-to-use app that’s grabbing all of the information in their browser and sending it to a 3rd party? Seems insane.
- zo1 4y ago
  I would - and I'm sure a lot of other people. Are you genuinely curious, or are you asking because you're implying that the people who would use such an app are somehow not understanding something or not intelligent, or don't know something that you do? Like you have to prove your case too, as you're not immediately "right" in your statement. Sure there is some level of "risk" in doing this, but there is risk in a lot of things. It's like me asking people this: "Why would anyone trust people with 4 weeks driving classes and a test with their lives on a road driving 80mph inside 2-tonne metal cages? Seems insane."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - eternalban 4y ago
    > "Why would anyone trust people with 4 weeks driving classes and a test with their lives on a road driving 80mph inside 2-tonne metal cages? Seems insane." We've run the experiment for n decades with billions of subjects and the results indicate it is actually not that bad. We have -not- really even discussed, much consider, the implications of having a central system with machine intelligence designed to extract features, patterns, emotions, assumed motives, ..., having access to the entire digital lives of societies. Is it insane to repeat the same mistakes? Not sure but it's somewhere close in the neighborhood. We could run it by a k-nearest algorithm and see what that suggests as a better category than 'insane'.
    - abroadwin 4y ago
      > We have -not- really even discussed, much consider, the implications of having a central system with machine intelligence designed to extract features, patterns, emotions, assumed motives, ..., having access to the entire digital lives of societies. Actually we've pretty much been watching that play out for years now, even if the technology hasn't been in its final form for the duration. Results have already been a wee bit society-destroying.
sureglymop 4y ago
I had a good experience testing out "gpt-3.5-turbo". Made a bot for the Matrix server we use at work so that co workers can query and work with the AI assistant collaboratively and in any group chat. Works pretty well so far and is fairly inexpensive. The markdown sent by the AI gets rendered nicely in Element and Conny. Want to open source it soon.
- apetresc 4y ago
  Did you somehow get it to play nice with multi-party chats, or does every user have their own private 1-1 room with the bot?
  - sureglymop 4y ago
    Both work. I have an SQLite db where i save "rooms", "sessions" and "messages". So multiple users can contribute in the same chat session, where i pass the whole conversation history to the AI as context. Then there are commands to switch and delete sessions. When the bot is mentioned in a message, it gets the answer from the API in a different thread and shows a writing indicator. It also plays super nice with the Element Matrix client which supports tables and codeblocks. The openai API sends back markdown which i can parse into html and send like that. I want to clean up my code a bit and then open source the bot.
2Gkashmiri 4y ago
please bring firefox versions from the start. You are only playing into the chrome monopoly by treating firefox users as second class citizens then complaining there is no "demand"
dang 4y ago
Related: Show HN: XP1 – A GPT-based Assistant with access to the browser Tabs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33970570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33970570 - Dec 2022 (9 comments)
bfeynman 4y ago
Certainly cool, but it's getting a lot to see just how good GPT is at generating utterly useless cheap content. Making content is a moving target, and GPT by nature produces uncannily generic generations.
shp0ngle 4y ago
I realized. I could use GPT to generate Wikipedia articles about random villages and people I know nothing about. Sure, those will not be at all correct, but who checks correctness on wikipedia, especially about random people and villages? GPT, give me 10 paragraphs about New East Lake, Michigan
- sorokod 4y ago
  Would that not qualify as an act of vandalism?
  - Centigonal 4y ago
    You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
- schroeding 4y ago
  You can, and some people will do exactly that. Ideally, new versions of GPT (and other LLMs) will be also trained on the newly added, mostly hallucinated data when using Wikipedia as part of the training set, baking those past hallucinations into the model, allowing other users to get additional hallucinated facts that fit the existing fictitious data, slowly creating a new "GPT cinematic universe" for e.g. small towns in Nebraska. And if people fact check it with Bing, there is a good chance it will say "Yeah, that checks out, here's Wikipedia and <some Wikipedia mirror> as a source". A creative derivation of XKCDs citogenesis[1] :D [1] https://xkcd.com/978/ https://xkcd.com/978/
- benopal64 4y ago
  Well that is true. However, I used Phind and was able to get 10 paragraphs about New East Lake with sources! https://www.phind.com/search?cache=8ff1dcc7-7587-4df8-9e46-6de5e4f21ea9 https://www.phind.com/search?cache=8ff1dcc7-7587-4df8-9e46-6... At the same time, it uses Wikipedia as a source as well as marketing and blog sources so Phind results should be carefully critiqued as well.
  - shp0ngle 4y ago
valgaze 4y ago
"- Does not work with Google Docs and Google Sheets (work in progress)" I wonder if security issue or because the canvas/ui is special
sva_ 4y ago
> Only the text content of the tabs you select and submit are sent through our servers to OpenAI's API. But they're still sent through your server for pretty much no reason?
- sodality2 4y ago
  So they don't have to send the API keys to the client, where they can be abused
  - lordpankake 4y ago
    OpenAI could begin to accept pre-signed URLS to accommodate this use case. Would reduce the amount of people with access to your private data by 1.
  - sva_ 4y ago
    Ah, I thought you'd provide your own key. If it is free, how do they not make losses?!
sebastianconcpt 4y ago
This kind of apps make me wonder... is AI going to learn how to treat people better than people?
- ur-whale 4y ago
  > is AI going to learn how to treat people better than people? The bar isn't very high TBH.
m3kw9 4y ago
Thought I saw Dell XP1 switching to use GPT 3.5 turbo. When you come out of beta, probably need a rebrand
fire 4y ago
Unfortunately Dust.tt doesn't use a modern email validation method and so fails on "modern" TLD's like .media, making it impossible to sign up for an activation key with it.
aa-jv 4y ago
Information needs to start having a "Free of AI-generated content" seal of approval, akin to the GMO battle being fought elsewhere. I mean, we already process high fructose digitally-altered content, that ship has sailed - but we ought really start to having an "AI / not-an-AI" tag we can put on things... (The moment I detect you've sent me an AI-created email about our project, I will replace you with a shell script.) /disclaimer: I may have generated this comment without any intelligence, whatsoever.
mdrzn 4y ago
Tried it in this page with the following prompt: "read the comments and write a summary of what people think of this product" GPT: Users are impressed by the capabilities of the product and its ability to generate content quickly. However, some users are concerned about the privacy implications of the product and are hesitant to use it due to the fact that it sends personal information to a third-party. The fact that the extension is open source helps to alleviate some of these concerns, but others remain skeptical about the intentions of the developers. Overall, there is a mix of excitement and caution surrounding this product.
mmacvicarprett 4y ago
"Mr X is an experienced software engineer with over 500 connections". ChatGPT learns from the best bullshit as well.

99 points by ukuina 4y ago

wahnfrieden 4y ago

They manage a cap on usage for predictability or have other means of converting early/often enough?

bcjordan 4y ago
Not sure about their policy/internals myself, but since GPT-3.5-turbo is 1/10th the cost of the previous model it's really hard now to run up a significant (to a funded startup) bill via legitimate usage — especially since at this phase any legit usage may be worth its weight in lessons about how the tool can be used. May be worth rate limiting / DoS protection but even then, could just cap OpenAI spending and spend the time to patch it if/when it happens (e.g. import @upstash/ratelimit or adding a quick Cloudflare rule)
- bogwog 4y ago
  Which raises a concern about privacy, since they're obviously going to be spying on your usage, and the tool has access to potentially sensitive information in your browser tabs.
  - spolu 4y ago
    Hi, this is a fair concern. We're super early and working on a proper privacy policy as we speak. But we also provided some color about how we handle your data on our Discord. Copying it here: ``` The privacy section on the landing README remains true. We just send your requests to OpenAI and store them for debugging purposes but we don't fetch or store anything else than what is required to process your requests of course. XP1 being opensource you can also look at the code if needed, but happy to answer any question In short: - Requests (including the text dump of tabs you select) go to the Dust main platform - They are processed as part of a Dust app whose Run object is stored - The LLM query is sent to OpenAI (retention policy 30 days, not used for training) - The response is tored as part of Dust's Run object - The response is streamed back to the client ```
    - fprotthetarball 4y ago
      "store them for debugging purposes" is a bit concerning if they then become available if law enforcement requests data, or if you guys are hacked and everything leaks.
    - mustacheemperor 4y ago
      >store them for debugging purposes This project this looks great, but it's going to be a no from me until your formal policy clarifies this point. Do those requests still "include the text dump of tabs you select" when stored? It's not that I don't trust you folks, it's that I can't trust the entire wider world to not eventually break into or subpoena your debugging repository. Further up in the thread people asked your extension about privacy concerns and at least one assumed the response's included remark about storing requests for debugging must have been an AI hallucination.
- spolu 4y ago
  Completely agreed with that. We'll revisit if needed but we don't expect it to be too much of an issue at this stage. Our goal is to gather marginally more usage to learn more about productivity use-cases using LLMs. Here's the email we sent to our users as we removed the paywall: https://twitter.com/dust4ai/status/1633484243228585988 https://twitter.com/dust4ai/status/1633484243228585988

zo1 4y ago

Chrome only? Guess I'll just have to wait/avoid for now.

stuckkeys 4y ago
Yeah, I noticed that also. I will watch from the sidelines for now.

meghan_rain 4y ago

How is this different from Edge the browser?

yunwal 4y ago

Why would anyone trust a free-to-use app that’s grabbing all of the information in their browser and sending it to a 3rd party? Seems insane.

zo1 4y ago
I would - and I'm sure a lot of other people. Are you genuinely curious, or are you asking because you're implying that the people who would use such an app are somehow not understanding something or not intelligent, or don't know something that you do? Like you have to prove your case too, as you're not immediately "right" in your statement. Sure there is some level of "risk" in doing this, but there is risk in a lot of things. It's like me asking people this: "Why would anyone trust people with 4 weeks driving classes and a test with their lives on a road driving 80mph inside 2-tonne metal cages? Seems insane."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eternalban 4y ago
  > "Why would anyone trust people with 4 weeks driving classes and a test with their lives on a road driving 80mph inside 2-tonne metal cages? Seems insane." We've run the experiment for n decades with billions of subjects and the results indicate it is actually not that bad. We have -not- really even discussed, much consider, the implications of having a central system with machine intelligence designed to extract features, patterns, emotions, assumed motives, ..., having access to the entire digital lives of societies. Is it insane to repeat the same mistakes? Not sure but it's somewhere close in the neighborhood. We could run it by a k-nearest algorithm and see what that suggests as a better category than 'insane'.
  - abroadwin 4y ago
    > We have -not- really even discussed, much consider, the implications of having a central system with machine intelligence designed to extract features, patterns, emotions, assumed motives, ..., having access to the entire digital lives of societies. Actually we've pretty much been watching that play out for years now, even if the technology hasn't been in its final form for the duration. Results have already been a wee bit society-destroying.

sureglymop 4y ago

I had a good experience testing out "gpt-3.5-turbo". Made a bot for the Matrix server we use at work so that co workers can query and work with the AI assistant collaboratively and in any group chat. Works pretty well so far and is fairly inexpensive. The markdown sent by the AI gets rendered nicely in Element and Conny. Want to open source it soon.

apetresc 4y ago
Did you somehow get it to play nice with multi-party chats, or does every user have their own private 1-1 room with the bot?
- sureglymop 4y ago
  Both work. I have an SQLite db where i save "rooms", "sessions" and "messages". So multiple users can contribute in the same chat session, where i pass the whole conversation history to the AI as context. Then there are commands to switch and delete sessions. When the bot is mentioned in a message, it gets the answer from the API in a different thread and shows a writing indicator. It also plays super nice with the Element Matrix client which supports tables and codeblocks. The openai API sends back markdown which i can parse into html and send like that. I want to clean up my code a bit and then open source the bot.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

please bring firefox versions from the start. You are only playing into the chrome monopoly by treating firefox users as second class citizens then complaining there is no "demand"

dang 4y ago

Related: Show HN: XP1 – A GPT-based Assistant with access to the browser Tabs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33970570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33970570 - Dec 2022 (9 comments)

bfeynman 4y ago

Certainly cool, but it's getting a lot to see just how good GPT is at generating utterly useless cheap content. Making content is a moving target, and GPT by nature produces uncannily generic generations.

shp0ngle 4y ago

I realized. I could use GPT to generate Wikipedia articles about random villages and people I know nothing about. Sure, those will not be at all correct, but who checks correctness on wikipedia, especially about random people and villages? GPT, give me 10 paragraphs about New East Lake, Michigan

sorokod 4y ago
Would that not qualify as an act of vandalism?
- Centigonal 4y ago
  You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
schroeding 4y ago
You can, and some people will do exactly that. Ideally, new versions of GPT (and other LLMs) will be also trained on the newly added, mostly hallucinated data when using Wikipedia as part of the training set, baking those past hallucinations into the model, allowing other users to get additional hallucinated facts that fit the existing fictitious data, slowly creating a new "GPT cinematic universe" for e.g. small towns in Nebraska. And if people fact check it with Bing, there is a good chance it will say "Yeah, that checks out, here's Wikipedia and <some Wikipedia mirror> as a source". A creative derivation of XKCDs citogenesis[1] :D [1] https://xkcd.com/978/ https://xkcd.com/978/
benopal64 4y ago
Well that is true. However, I used Phind and was able to get 10 paragraphs about New East Lake with sources! https://www.phind.com/search?cache=8ff1dcc7-7587-4df8-9e46-6de5e4f21ea9 https://www.phind.com/search?cache=8ff1dcc7-7587-4df8-9e46-6... At the same time, it uses Wikipedia as a source as well as marketing and blog sources so Phind results should be carefully critiqued as well.
- shp0ngle 4y ago

valgaze 4y ago

"- Does not work with Google Docs and Google Sheets (work in progress)" I wonder if security issue or because the canvas/ui is special

sva_ 4y ago

> Only the text content of the tabs you select and submit are sent through our servers to OpenAI's API. But they're still sent through your server for pretty much no reason?

sodality2 4y ago
So they don't have to send the API keys to the client, where they can be abused
- lordpankake 4y ago
  OpenAI could begin to accept pre-signed URLS to accommodate this use case. Would reduce the amount of people with access to your private data by 1.
- sva_ 4y ago
  Ah, I thought you'd provide your own key. If it is free, how do they not make losses?!

sebastianconcpt 4y ago

This kind of apps make me wonder... is AI going to learn how to treat people better than people?

ur-whale 4y ago
> is AI going to learn how to treat people better than people? The bar isn't very high TBH.

m3kw9 4y ago

Thought I saw Dell XP1 switching to use GPT 3.5 turbo. When you come out of beta, probably need a rebrand

fire 4y ago

Unfortunately Dust.tt doesn't use a modern email validation method and so fails on "modern" TLD's like .media, making it impossible to sign up for an activation key with it.

aa-jv 4y ago

Information needs to start having a "Free of AI-generated content" seal of approval, akin to the GMO battle being fought elsewhere. I mean, we already process high fructose digitally-altered content, that ship has sailed - but we ought really start to having an "AI / not-an-AI" tag we can put on things... (The moment I detect you've sent me an AI-created email about our project, I will replace you with a shell script.) /disclaimer: I may have generated this comment without any intelligence, whatsoever.

mdrzn 4y ago

Tried it in this page with the following prompt: "read the comments and write a summary of what people think of this product" GPT: Users are impressed by the capabilities of the product and its ability to generate content quickly. However, some users are concerned about the privacy implications of the product and are hesitant to use it due to the fact that it sends personal information to a third-party. The fact that the extension is open source helps to alleviate some of these concerns, but others remain skeptical about the intentions of the developers. Overall, there is a mix of excitement and caution surrounding this product.

mmacvicarprett 4y ago

"Mr X is an experienced software engineer with over 500 connections". ChatGPT learns from the best bullshit as well.