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I think fruit is seriously overrated from a health perspective. The main benefit of fruit comes when comparing it to candy, white bread, and desserts. Fruit usu

I think fruit is seriously overrated from a health perspective. The main benefit of fruit comes when comparing it to candy, white bread, and desserts. Fruit usually has a bit more fiber. Many modern fruits still have a ton of sugar, and it's absolutely possible to give yourself diabetes just eating too much fruit. Vegetables are packed with nutrients and fiber, without all the sugars that fruit brings. I tend to think sugar and flour belongs at the top of a pyramid, fruit in the middle, and veggies is the base. However cutting out fruit altogether probably won't hurt at all.

scythe 4y ago
I have a selection of studies saved for every time the anti-fruit line gets brought up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28182058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28182058 >it's absolutely possible to give yourself diabetes just eating too much fruit. [citation needed]
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  I don't have a study, but I seem to recall that fruit juice and smoothies may be problematic.
  - commoner 4y ago
    Fruit juice is generally not healthy because it excludes most or all of the edible fruit pulp, which includes all of the fruit's fiber and much of the fruit's antioxidant content. Whole fruits, on the other hand, have been shown time and time again to be a healthy food choice for most people. > Our findings suggest that there is significant heterogeneity in the associations between individual fruits and risk of type 2 diabetes. Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, was significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater fruit juice consumption was associated with a higher risk. The differences in the associations between individual fruits were not accounted for by variation in the glycemic index/glycemic load values of individual fruits. Overall, these results support recommendations on increasing consumption of a variety of whole fruits, especially blueberries, grapes, and apples, as a measure for diabetes prevention. https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001 https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001 People who look at only the macronutrient ratios (fat, carbohydrates, and protein) while disregarding everything else tend to underestimate the health benefits of fruits. Nutrition is more than just macronutrients.
  - scottlamb 4y ago
    My understanding is the fiber of the whole fruit is important: it slows absorption of the sugar and adds bulk to aid digestion in general. Typically some or all of it is removed in juices and smoothies. I think of removing fiber as similar to adding sugar. fwiw, I eat a low-carb diet (up to ~90g of net carbs, so not strict keto). I often eat some fresh or from-frozen fruit: blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, orange (half a navel or a whole mandarin), or a few apple slices. I never drink juice. I don't feel fruit gives me any nutrition I can't get elsewhere. I can get vitamin C for example from various vegetables including red peppers, cabbage, and dark leafy greens. I also take a multivitamin because it's hard to get enough of some nutrients (notably vitamin D) that fruit doesn't help with anyway.
- lcedp 4y ago
  > [citation needed] I don't have a citation either, but google search reveals the following points: 1) One serving, or one medium apple, provides about 95 calories, 0 gram fat, 1 gram protein, 25 grams carbohydrate, 19 grams sugar (naturally occurring), and 3 grams fiber. 2) Recommended amount of consumed sugar for an adult is 30 grams per day. 3) You can also find a lot of citations how increased sugar consumption increases chances of diabetes. So two apples already gets you above the recommended amount. An apple is basically 80% sugar in terms of calories: 19 * 4 / 95 = ~80%
  - kif 4y ago
    Your comment is misleading. About point no. 2, that’s the recommended amount of added sugar, not counting fruits. There are no studies to my knowledge that show increasing fruit intake increases chances of diabetes. But there are studies that show that the risk of diabetes goes down by increasing fruit intake.
    - lcedp 4y ago
      To my understanding, that included fruit sugar, not only added sugar: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/how-does-sugar-in-our-diet-affect-our-health/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/how-does-su... > The government recommends that free sugars – sugars added to food or drinks, and sugars found naturally in honey, syrups, and unsweetened fruit and vegetable juices, smoothies and purées – should not make up more than 5% of the energy (calories) you get from food and drink each day. But even if the recommendation is added sugar -- what is the real difference between added and "natural" occurring sugar? Does this distinction invalidate my comment above? The point being that it's quite possible and even easy to consume several times, or even order above the reasonable amount of sugar by eating fruits. The apple is not even the sweetest one.
      - kif 4y ago
        > and unsweetened fruit and vegetable juices This does not count sugar in fruits or vegetables, but their juices.
- kif 4y ago
  It is a very ridiculous claim. There’s a study (don’t have the link to it as I’m writing from my phone). It says that increasing fruit juice intake leads to an increased risk of diabetes. Whereas increasing fruit intake leads to a decreased risk of diabetes. I hope someone else can find it.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453647/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453647/
- eth0up 4y ago
  Citation needed, aye? Fearing diabetes is kinda missing the forest for the trees; the laser for the shark; the BED for the banana - it's deranged priority. But thou asked. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Defence_Against_Fresh_Fruit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Defence_Against_Fresh_F... 2. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MlroOdP8p2Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MlroOdP8p2Y
slothtrop 4y ago
The glycemic load of fruit varies tremendously. You can find undomesticated fruit in the wild that is high-sugar / high-GI, and domesticated fruit (engineered over 1000s of years) that isn't. Fiber, micronutrient and phytonutrient content also varies, but in the main, they all provide health benefits. > it's absolutely possible to give yourself diabetes just eating too much fruit. It isn't, because that's not how it works. You get diabetes from obesity / high-calorie intake, not sugar. Sugar has deleterious effects but it will not in itself make you diabetic. https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/diabetes#diabetes4 https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/diabetes#diabetes4 , https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/diabetes-causes.html https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/diabetes-cause...
natdempk 4y ago
Can you point to a single person who has given themselves diabetes from eating too much fruit?
- exfatloss 4y ago
  I doubt you could give yourself diabetes from fruit without really trying. The chewing just gets old real quick. But I also don't think you miss much by cutting fruit out entirely. It's a bunch of sugar, a lot of fiber, and a few vitamins that you can easily get from other places like green, leafy vegetables. Really nothing unique about fruit unless you just really like fruit.
  - natdempk 4y ago
    But I also don't think you miss much by cutting music out entirely. It's a bunch of sounds, a lot of noise, and a few repetitions that you can easily get from other places like your natural environment. Really nothing unique about music unless you just really like music. ... But I also don't think you miss much by cutting art out entirely. It's a bunch of brush strokes, a lot of colors, and a few layers that you can easily get from other places like the world around you. Really nothing unique about art unless you just really like art. .. But I also don't think you miss much by cutting vision out entirely. It's a bunch of wavelengths, a lot of rod and cones, and a few optic nerve stimuli that you can easily get from other places like your brain itself. Really nothing unique about vision unless you just really like vision. ... But I also don't think you miss much by cutting walking out entirely. It's a bunch of muscle stimuli, a lot of breathing, and a few images that you can easily get from other places like moving in place. Really nothing unique about walking unless you just really like walking.
    - exfatloss 4y ago
      Yes. And?
    - natdempk 4y ago
      I can't reply to the child comment, but my main point its ridiculous to reduce down human enjoyment into "nothing is strictly necessary and there is no point to human existence or experience" and "you can get all the component pieces of a thing, so what is the benefit of the combined thing" as an argument for cutting things out. But yes, I don't disagree with "you don't need to eat anything complex really if you don't enjoy it and just care about basic sustenance".

scythe 4y ago

I have a selection of studies saved for every time the anti-fruit line gets brought up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28182058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28182058 >it's absolutely possible to give yourself diabetes just eating too much fruit. [citation needed]

jimnotgym 4y ago
I don't have a study, but I seem to recall that fruit juice and smoothies may be problematic.
- commoner 4y ago
  Fruit juice is generally not healthy because it excludes most or all of the edible fruit pulp, which includes all of the fruit's fiber and much of the fruit's antioxidant content. Whole fruits, on the other hand, have been shown time and time again to be a healthy food choice for most people. > Our findings suggest that there is significant heterogeneity in the associations between individual fruits and risk of type 2 diabetes. Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, was significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater fruit juice consumption was associated with a higher risk. The differences in the associations between individual fruits were not accounted for by variation in the glycemic index/glycemic load values of individual fruits. Overall, these results support recommendations on increasing consumption of a variety of whole fruits, especially blueberries, grapes, and apples, as a measure for diabetes prevention. https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001 https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001 People who look at only the macronutrient ratios (fat, carbohydrates, and protein) while disregarding everything else tend to underestimate the health benefits of fruits. Nutrition is more than just macronutrients.
- scottlamb 4y ago
  My understanding is the fiber of the whole fruit is important: it slows absorption of the sugar and adds bulk to aid digestion in general. Typically some or all of it is removed in juices and smoothies. I think of removing fiber as similar to adding sugar. fwiw, I eat a low-carb diet (up to ~90g of net carbs, so not strict keto). I often eat some fresh or from-frozen fruit: blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, orange (half a navel or a whole mandarin), or a few apple slices. I never drink juice. I don't feel fruit gives me any nutrition I can't get elsewhere. I can get vitamin C for example from various vegetables including red peppers, cabbage, and dark leafy greens. I also take a multivitamin because it's hard to get enough of some nutrients (notably vitamin D) that fruit doesn't help with anyway.
lcedp 4y ago
> [citation needed] I don't have a citation either, but google search reveals the following points: 1) One serving, or one medium apple, provides about 95 calories, 0 gram fat, 1 gram protein, 25 grams carbohydrate, 19 grams sugar (naturally occurring), and 3 grams fiber. 2) Recommended amount of consumed sugar for an adult is 30 grams per day. 3) You can also find a lot of citations how increased sugar consumption increases chances of diabetes. So two apples already gets you above the recommended amount. An apple is basically 80% sugar in terms of calories: 19 * 4 / 95 = ~80%
- kif 4y ago
  Your comment is misleading. About point no. 2, that’s the recommended amount of added sugar, not counting fruits. There are no studies to my knowledge that show increasing fruit intake increases chances of diabetes. But there are studies that show that the risk of diabetes goes down by increasing fruit intake.
  - lcedp 4y ago
    To my understanding, that included fruit sugar, not only added sugar: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/how-does-sugar-in-our-diet-affect-our-health/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/how-does-su... > The government recommends that free sugars – sugars added to food or drinks, and sugars found naturally in honey, syrups, and unsweetened fruit and vegetable juices, smoothies and purées – should not make up more than 5% of the energy (calories) you get from food and drink each day. But even if the recommendation is added sugar -- what is the real difference between added and "natural" occurring sugar? Does this distinction invalidate my comment above? The point being that it's quite possible and even easy to consume several times, or even order above the reasonable amount of sugar by eating fruits. The apple is not even the sweetest one.
    - kif 4y ago
      > and unsweetened fruit and vegetable juices This does not count sugar in fruits or vegetables, but their juices.
kif 4y ago
It is a very ridiculous claim. There’s a study (don’t have the link to it as I’m writing from my phone). It says that increasing fruit juice intake leads to an increased risk of diabetes. Whereas increasing fruit intake leads to a decreased risk of diabetes. I hope someone else can find it.
- zamnos 4y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453647/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453647/
eth0up 4y ago
Citation needed, aye? Fearing diabetes is kinda missing the forest for the trees; the laser for the shark; the BED for the banana - it's deranged priority. But thou asked. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Defence_Against_Fresh_Fruit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Defence_Against_Fresh_F... 2. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MlroOdP8p2Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MlroOdP8p2Y

slothtrop 4y ago

The glycemic load of fruit varies tremendously. You can find undomesticated fruit in the wild that is high-sugar / high-GI, and domesticated fruit (engineered over 1000s of years) that isn't. Fiber, micronutrient and phytonutrient content also varies, but in the main, they all provide health benefits. > it's absolutely possible to give yourself diabetes just eating too much fruit. It isn't, because that's not how it works. You get diabetes from obesity / high-calorie intake, not sugar. Sugar has deleterious effects but it will not in itself make you diabetic. https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/diabetes#diabetes4 https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/diabetes#diabetes4 , https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/diabetes-causes.html https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/diabetes-cause...

natdempk 4y ago

Can you point to a single person who has given themselves diabetes from eating too much fruit?

exfatloss 4y ago
I doubt you could give yourself diabetes from fruit without really trying. The chewing just gets old real quick. But I also don't think you miss much by cutting fruit out entirely. It's a bunch of sugar, a lot of fiber, and a few vitamins that you can easily get from other places like green, leafy vegetables. Really nothing unique about fruit unless you just really like fruit.
- natdempk 4y ago
  But I also don't think you miss much by cutting music out entirely. It's a bunch of sounds, a lot of noise, and a few repetitions that you can easily get from other places like your natural environment. Really nothing unique about music unless you just really like music. ... But I also don't think you miss much by cutting art out entirely. It's a bunch of brush strokes, a lot of colors, and a few layers that you can easily get from other places like the world around you. Really nothing unique about art unless you just really like art. .. But I also don't think you miss much by cutting vision out entirely. It's a bunch of wavelengths, a lot of rod and cones, and a few optic nerve stimuli that you can easily get from other places like your brain itself. Really nothing unique about vision unless you just really like vision. ... But I also don't think you miss much by cutting walking out entirely. It's a bunch of muscle stimuli, a lot of breathing, and a few images that you can easily get from other places like moving in place. Really nothing unique about walking unless you just really like walking.
  - exfatloss 4y ago
    Yes. And?
  - natdempk 4y ago
    I can't reply to the child comment, but my main point its ridiculous to reduce down human enjoyment into "nothing is strictly necessary and there is no point to human existence or experience" and "you can get all the component pieces of a thing, so what is the benefit of the combined thing" as an argument for cutting things out. But yes, I don't disagree with "you don't need to eat anything complex really if you don't enjoy it and just care about basic sustenance".