6 ms·

Just some anecdata: I have followed a disciplined keto diet for two-and-a-half years. I eat close to no carbs (apart from fiber). I do, however, like sweet stuf

Just some anecdata: I have followed a disciplined keto diet for two-and-a-half years. I eat close to no carbs (apart from fiber). I do, however, like sweet stuff, so I use artificial sweeteners. Lots of them, every day. A mix of stevia, aspartame, sugar alcohols like erythritol, and so on. I have never had an issue with them (that I am able to notice, of course, not saying they can't have some hidden harmful effects). For those saying that they are a slippery slide to eating more real sugar, I don't think so. At this point I recoil at eating anything with real sugar. It is overwhelmingly sweet, it almost burns in the mouth, and later I get bloated and retain water. I believe this is one of the criticisms of artificial sweeteners - that it lowers your ability to clear blood sugar, since you're just not used to having to produce a lot of insulin at one time. Well I don't actually want to eat a lot of sugar ever, so I'm okay with that. I'm almost certain that artificial sweeteners have some bad effects somehow, but the bad effects of sugar are plentiful and obvious, so for now the trade-off makes sense, to me.

teeray 4y ago
> At this point I recoil at eating anything with real sugar. It’s amazing what drinking regular coke is like after being off sugar for awhile. I swear the mouth-feel of drinking the syrup they make it with is there.
- YeahNO 4y ago
  It's hard to give up the black oil, er, soda. I don't really like plain water. I can't take anything with most artificial sweeteners, they are migraine triggers for me. I bought a SodaStream, a 10 lb. bottle of CO2 and a few BiB syrup cases of Barq's Root Beer and have been lowering the concentration of syrup the past few months. I'm down to 1/4 the normal concentration of syrup. Eventually, I should be acclimated to the taste of fizzy water by itself... still not much of a fan.
  - Yahivin 4y ago
    Carbonated water plus orange or lemon peel is great!
  - chihuahua 4y ago
    There are several brands of flavored soda beverages that don't have any sweeteners, sugar or artificial. LaCroix is one of them. The taste has been described as being "like sitting next to someone who is thinking about drinking an orange soda/root beer/etc."
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > It’s amazing what drinking regular coke is like after being off sugar for awhile. It's exquisite. I drink one every few months when we go out to a restaurant. Or a Dr Pepper, another favorite of mine. If you drink them every day, they're pretty boring. But once in a while, they're fantastic.
prmoustache 4y ago
So basically you came to a point you can't even eat fruits? How is it supposed to improve your health/life?
- sneak 4y ago
  Most people (like myself) that keep in ketosis are doing so for weight loss. Being fat is a lot more deadly than not eating fruits.
- zikzak 4y ago
  When I cut up an apple or wash some strawberries for my son, I eat a slice or two or maybe a strawberry. Blueberries work well, etc. It's just a choice to balance your diet a different way (I am not nearly as strict as OP). There's a lot of fibre in fruit, you can make it work, but most people don't realize how much sugar is in fruit and it isn't good for you if you are managing type-2 diabetes, or whatever.
- sfjailbird 4y ago
  a. Vegetables > fruit, and I eat a lot of vegetables, to substitute for the carbs. For example, I usually eat broccoli instead of potatoes. b. Many fruits are 'keto friendly', like blueberries, strawberries, actually mostly berries :), but also something like water melon, in moderation. c. A lot of modern fruit is engineered to be high in sugar and water and low in nutrients, so they might not even be so healthy as you think. d. I can actually eat sweet fruit (although I don't often want to). I was talking more about sugar-crammed stuff like cake and soft drinks.
  - rickydroll 4y ago
    Lots of good points. I still eat fruit under specific circumstances. Rainier cherries, early season white peaches, and home ripened Red d'Anjou pears. All these fruit have this short 2-3 day window when they are beautifully ripe, silky mouth feel and when the fruit warms in your mouth, it releases a perfume that fills your nose with their own unique scent. These are food worth eating. A close follow-up fruit is the small strawberries you get in Estonia at the end of June. They may also have them in Finland but I don't think I got there in time to try them. Again good texture, mouth feel and that wonderful aromatic strawberry flavor you don't get in most places. Certainly not from American supermarket berries.
ddorian43 4y ago
> I eat close to no carbs (apart from fiber). How many net & total grams of carbs a day are we talking here? > I do, however, like sweet stuff, so I use artificial sweeteners. Lots of them, every day. A mix of stevia, aspartame, sugar alcohols like erythritol, and so on. Another point of keto is to also remove the carb/sweets addiction over time(I know it's hard, am addicted/recovering myself).
- ryanianian 4y ago
  > How many net & total grams of carbs a day Total grams doesn't matter. The point is the glycemic impact. Some people are very sensitive to carbs and can't eat a banana without throwing off ketosis, and others can have upwards of 30g of net carbs a day and still stay in ketosis. My goal is 20g or less, and my ketones still stay in the 1.5-2.0 range unless I overdo protein instead of fat. For most people, the starting point is around 15g net carbs a day. If you're serious about keto (and staying healthy while doing so) you'll want a ketone testing mechanism as well as guidance from your doctor about adjusting medications since ketosis mimics a fasting state for a bunch of your metabolic processes.
  - ddorian43 4y ago
    > If you're serious about keto I aim for >=2 mmol/l for ketones and <=4.5mmol/l for glucose (blood tests).
    - exfatloss 4y ago
      I think it also depends on the types of sugars. I can seem to tolerate way more lactose and still maintain ketosis, for example. Plus there are different "levels of ketosis" and I'm not sure there's much research on it. E.g. my Non-24 is in remission even when I eat more of a VLCD. My ketones aren't as high but it works just as good for my purpose. I don't know if that level would be enough for an epileptic, for example, or someone who gets other benefits from keto.
ach9l 4y ago
I'm on my 1888th day after I changed my way of eating, and I hate when this happens to me, I mean, losing the ketosis because something I ate had too much sugar. It happens in some asian restaurants where they cook salmon with sugar and they don't tell you, in some places they add sugar to most japanese salads / wakame. I get bloated and retain water, I get out of focus easily, and I'm tired for the most part of the day. One day a friend of mine thought he had vodka (which does not kick you out of ketosis) instead he gave me some transparent licor, very sweet. I had the most profound high on sugar of my life, with just one shot, I had a high rush of feelings and pleasure, increased heart rate, I wanted to go out and party. I had nightmares that night, in the dreams I needed to run or escape. It took me 72h to fully recover. That said, I've written the most creative pieces of code, mostly backends in functional programming while on ketosis
- exfatloss 4y ago
  Fellow keto-er here. There is definitely some hidden ultra sugar in some of those restaurant sauces. I've had a similar experience with takeout Chinese that was "just" chicken & vegetables. Two bites and I felt myself catapult out of ketosis, including the sugar rush you describe and even heart palpitations. Another thing is that some artificial sweeteners instantly kick me out, too. Worse than sugar. I forget which one it is but I grabbed a "sugar-free" energy drink one time. I spit out the very first sip but still got kicked out of ketosis including the heat and sugar rush, that's how strong it was. That said, stevia and monk fruit are totally fine for me. No effect whatsoever. I slightly prefer the taste of monk fruit.
  - barroomhero 4y ago
    You can just feel yourself go in and out of ketosis? What's that like?
    - exfatloss 4y ago
      Not always, but if it's super drastic. Feels like a massive sugar rush (or maybe it is actually just the sugar rush I'm experiencing when I accidentally eat hidden sugar?) Get super hot, feel like my blood is rushing, heart beats.. not faster but.. louder?
dangwhy 4y ago
> I'm almost certain that artificial sweeteners have some bad effects somehow, but the bad effects of sugar are plentiful and obvious, so for now the trade-off makes sense, to me. Unknown bad effects are better than known bad effects? Not sure if thats sound logic.
post-it 4y ago
> later I get bloated Anecdotally, this may be because you've decreased your intake and retention of B vitamins, which are water-soluble and essential in metabolizing carbs. Since you retain less water on keto, you have less B vitamins available to digest carbs (and you don't need them, because you're not eating carbs). A lot of people who eat keto feel bloated whenever they eat carbs, to the point that even if they want to quit keto they struggle to do it because carbs make them feel awful. I ate keto for about a year and stopped a couple months ago and experienced this. So to anyone eating keto who may want to stop but feels awful when eating carbs, supplement your B-vitamins for a month or so, particularly B1/thiamine.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  This is the first time I’ve seen anyone claim B vitamins play a role in carbohydrate metabolism. Do you have any sources? Edit: Aha, from a bit of googling it looks like they are required cofactors for various enzymes.

teeray 4y ago

> At this point I recoil at eating anything with real sugar. It’s amazing what drinking regular coke is like after being off sugar for awhile. I swear the mouth-feel of drinking the syrup they make it with is there.

YeahNO 4y ago
It's hard to give up the black oil, er, soda. I don't really like plain water. I can't take anything with most artificial sweeteners, they are migraine triggers for me. I bought a SodaStream, a 10 lb. bottle of CO2 and a few BiB syrup cases of Barq's Root Beer and have been lowering the concentration of syrup the past few months. I'm down to 1/4 the normal concentration of syrup. Eventually, I should be acclimated to the taste of fizzy water by itself... still not much of a fan.
- Yahivin 4y ago
  Carbonated water plus orange or lemon peel is great!
- chihuahua 4y ago
  There are several brands of flavored soda beverages that don't have any sweeteners, sugar or artificial. LaCroix is one of them. The taste has been described as being "like sitting next to someone who is thinking about drinking an orange soda/root beer/etc."
rootusrootus 4y ago
> It’s amazing what drinking regular coke is like after being off sugar for awhile. It's exquisite. I drink one every few months when we go out to a restaurant. Or a Dr Pepper, another favorite of mine. If you drink them every day, they're pretty boring. But once in a while, they're fantastic.

prmoustache 4y ago

So basically you came to a point you can't even eat fruits? How is it supposed to improve your health/life?

sneak 4y ago
Most people (like myself) that keep in ketosis are doing so for weight loss. Being fat is a lot more deadly than not eating fruits.
zikzak 4y ago
When I cut up an apple or wash some strawberries for my son, I eat a slice or two or maybe a strawberry. Blueberries work well, etc. It's just a choice to balance your diet a different way (I am not nearly as strict as OP). There's a lot of fibre in fruit, you can make it work, but most people don't realize how much sugar is in fruit and it isn't good for you if you are managing type-2 diabetes, or whatever.
sfjailbird 4y ago
a. Vegetables > fruit, and I eat a lot of vegetables, to substitute for the carbs. For example, I usually eat broccoli instead of potatoes. b. Many fruits are 'keto friendly', like blueberries, strawberries, actually mostly berries :), but also something like water melon, in moderation. c. A lot of modern fruit is engineered to be high in sugar and water and low in nutrients, so they might not even be so healthy as you think. d. I can actually eat sweet fruit (although I don't often want to). I was talking more about sugar-crammed stuff like cake and soft drinks.
- rickydroll 4y ago
  Lots of good points. I still eat fruit under specific circumstances. Rainier cherries, early season white peaches, and home ripened Red d'Anjou pears. All these fruit have this short 2-3 day window when they are beautifully ripe, silky mouth feel and when the fruit warms in your mouth, it releases a perfume that fills your nose with their own unique scent. These are food worth eating. A close follow-up fruit is the small strawberries you get in Estonia at the end of June. They may also have them in Finland but I don't think I got there in time to try them. Again good texture, mouth feel and that wonderful aromatic strawberry flavor you don't get in most places. Certainly not from American supermarket berries.

ddorian43 4y ago

> I eat close to no carbs (apart from fiber). How many net & total grams of carbs a day are we talking here? > I do, however, like sweet stuff, so I use artificial sweeteners. Lots of them, every day. A mix of stevia, aspartame, sugar alcohols like erythritol, and so on. Another point of keto is to also remove the carb/sweets addiction over time(I know it's hard, am addicted/recovering myself).

ryanianian 4y ago
> How many net & total grams of carbs a day Total grams doesn't matter. The point is the glycemic impact. Some people are very sensitive to carbs and can't eat a banana without throwing off ketosis, and others can have upwards of 30g of net carbs a day and still stay in ketosis. My goal is 20g or less, and my ketones still stay in the 1.5-2.0 range unless I overdo protein instead of fat. For most people, the starting point is around 15g net carbs a day. If you're serious about keto (and staying healthy while doing so) you'll want a ketone testing mechanism as well as guidance from your doctor about adjusting medications since ketosis mimics a fasting state for a bunch of your metabolic processes.
- ddorian43 4y ago
  > If you're serious about keto I aim for >=2 mmol/l for ketones and <=4.5mmol/l for glucose (blood tests).
  - exfatloss 4y ago
    I think it also depends on the types of sugars. I can seem to tolerate way more lactose and still maintain ketosis, for example. Plus there are different "levels of ketosis" and I'm not sure there's much research on it. E.g. my Non-24 is in remission even when I eat more of a VLCD. My ketones aren't as high but it works just as good for my purpose. I don't know if that level would be enough for an epileptic, for example, or someone who gets other benefits from keto.

ach9l 4y ago

I'm on my 1888th day after I changed my way of eating, and I hate when this happens to me, I mean, losing the ketosis because something I ate had too much sugar. It happens in some asian restaurants where they cook salmon with sugar and they don't tell you, in some places they add sugar to most japanese salads / wakame. I get bloated and retain water, I get out of focus easily, and I'm tired for the most part of the day. One day a friend of mine thought he had vodka (which does not kick you out of ketosis) instead he gave me some transparent licor, very sweet. I had the most profound high on sugar of my life, with just one shot, I had a high rush of feelings and pleasure, increased heart rate, I wanted to go out and party. I had nightmares that night, in the dreams I needed to run or escape. It took me 72h to fully recover. That said, I've written the most creative pieces of code, mostly backends in functional programming while on ketosis

exfatloss 4y ago
Fellow keto-er here. There is definitely some hidden ultra sugar in some of those restaurant sauces. I've had a similar experience with takeout Chinese that was "just" chicken & vegetables. Two bites and I felt myself catapult out of ketosis, including the sugar rush you describe and even heart palpitations. Another thing is that some artificial sweeteners instantly kick me out, too. Worse than sugar. I forget which one it is but I grabbed a "sugar-free" energy drink one time. I spit out the very first sip but still got kicked out of ketosis including the heat and sugar rush, that's how strong it was. That said, stevia and monk fruit are totally fine for me. No effect whatsoever. I slightly prefer the taste of monk fruit.
- barroomhero 4y ago
  You can just feel yourself go in and out of ketosis? What's that like?
  - exfatloss 4y ago
    Not always, but if it's super drastic. Feels like a massive sugar rush (or maybe it is actually just the sugar rush I'm experiencing when I accidentally eat hidden sugar?) Get super hot, feel like my blood is rushing, heart beats.. not faster but.. louder?

dangwhy 4y ago

> I'm almost certain that artificial sweeteners have some bad effects somehow, but the bad effects of sugar are plentiful and obvious, so for now the trade-off makes sense, to me. Unknown bad effects are better than known bad effects? Not sure if thats sound logic.

post-it 4y ago

> later I get bloated Anecdotally, this may be because you've decreased your intake and retention of B vitamins, which are water-soluble and essential in metabolizing carbs. Since you retain less water on keto, you have less B vitamins available to digest carbs (and you don't need them, because you're not eating carbs). A lot of people who eat keto feel bloated whenever they eat carbs, to the point that even if they want to quit keto they struggle to do it because carbs make them feel awful. I ate keto for about a year and stopped a couple months ago and experienced this. So to anyone eating keto who may want to stop but feels awful when eating carbs, supplement your B-vitamins for a month or so, particularly B1/thiamine.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
This is the first time I’ve seen anyone claim B vitamins play a role in carbohydrate metabolism. Do you have any sources? Edit: Aha, from a bit of googling it looks like they are required cofactors for various enzymes.