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> Grocery stores can and should be a lot closer to where people live. And how do groceries get to the vast network of local stores ? Besides that the US is a

> Grocery stores can and should be a lot closer to where people live. And how do groceries get to the vast network of local stores ? Besides that the US is a MUCH larger country than the NL, distances in the US are also much greater than anything you can imagine in Europe. There's a reason our US friends measure travel in time taken, and not distance travelled. The number of shops needed to "locally supply" everybody would be gigantic. The more stores that needs to be supplied, the more trucks needs to drive around supplying them, which leads to the question; what pollutes the most ? If humanity wants to make an improvement, we need much more public transportation, and not like today where it's "once per hour unless you live downtown", but in a way that doesn't make a 30 minute trip take 90 minutes. If we manage that, it doesn't really matter how far away the grocery store is. To give an impression of the size difference, the Netherlands covers an area of 16,160 sq mi (41,850 km2), and New York State alone covers 54,556 square miles (141,300 km2), and New York State is the 27th largest state in the US. > My grocery store (in Amsterdam) is a 5 minute walk And how many of those groceries are produced in Amsterdam ? Each an every one has been transported on one or more trucks to arrive in a convenient walking distance to you. I fully agree and understand that shops needs to be local, but they're not the most environmentally friendly solution.

mcv 4y ago
Groceries get to the shops by trucks. This is no different whether you have large or small shops. The only difference is: do you send all the trucks to the same shop or do you spread them over multiple shops. Amsterdam has no problem keeping its many, many smaller supermarkets well-stocked. Sure, it's a logistical challenge, but not one that cannot be solved. > Besides that the US is a MUCH larger country than the NL, distances in the US are also much greater than anything you can imagine in Europe. Of course, but how is that relevant? The fact that a country is larger doesn't mean that you have to make people travel all that distance. Imagine the EU merges into a single country at some point. That's not going to change the logistical situation around Amsterdam in any way. Logistics is already very international in the EU. > what pollutes the most? Yeah, what pollutes the most? Lots of trucks driving to a central big store, and then having people drive even more cars to that central store, or driving all those trucks to smaller local stores that people walk to? For the smaller shops, you probably don't need big trucks, but smaller ones, which does mean more of them, but still not remotely as many as the cars your saving. And some delivery trucks in Amsterdam are pretty light and electric already. > it doesn't really matter how far away the grocery store is. It still does. Mind you, more public transport is absolutely vital. I totally agree with that. And Amsterdam has pretty decent public transport (though biking is generally faster), but I still prefer local shops.
OmarAssadi 4y ago
I am tired of this idea that the US being large invalidates anything that happens in Europe as impossible. I lived in Russia for a while, in a city in the middle of Siberia, and there is a night and day difference between how people live. Russia is even larger than the US, but living in single-family detached homes is just not very common. So, most things tend to be within walking distance. And public transport is much more effective.

mcv 4y ago

Groceries get to the shops by trucks. This is no different whether you have large or small shops. The only difference is: do you send all the trucks to the same shop or do you spread them over multiple shops. Amsterdam has no problem keeping its many, many smaller supermarkets well-stocked. Sure, it's a logistical challenge, but not one that cannot be solved. > Besides that the US is a MUCH larger country than the NL, distances in the US are also much greater than anything you can imagine in Europe. Of course, but how is that relevant? The fact that a country is larger doesn't mean that you have to make people travel all that distance. Imagine the EU merges into a single country at some point. That's not going to change the logistical situation around Amsterdam in any way. Logistics is already very international in the EU. > what pollutes the most? Yeah, what pollutes the most? Lots of trucks driving to a central big store, and then having people drive even more cars to that central store, or driving all those trucks to smaller local stores that people walk to? For the smaller shops, you probably don't need big trucks, but smaller ones, which does mean more of them, but still not remotely as many as the cars your saving. And some delivery trucks in Amsterdam are pretty light and electric already. > it doesn't really matter how far away the grocery store is. It still does. Mind you, more public transport is absolutely vital. I totally agree with that. And Amsterdam has pretty decent public transport (though biking is generally faster), but I still prefer local shops.

OmarAssadi 4y ago

I am tired of this idea that the US being large invalidates anything that happens in Europe as impossible. I lived in Russia for a while, in a city in the middle of Siberia, and there is a night and day difference between how people live. Russia is even larger than the US, but living in single-family detached homes is just not very common. So, most things tend to be within walking distance. And public transport is much more effective.