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> Even worse: USA sabotaged the Russian-German pipeline and all Western mass media acts like nothing has happened. Germany has proven to be a lap dog of US inte

> Even worse: USA sabotaged the Russian-German pipeline and all Western mass media acts like nothing has happened. Germany has proven to be a lap dog of US interests by staying silent on the matter. Interestingly, the story is still unfolding on this one, going through: * "it's obviously the Russian, stupid", * "wait, no, it's not obviously the Russian, we don't have any proof" * "thinking about it, it's probably not the Russian, let us investigate" * "Russian propaganda claims it's the USA, but no-one really believe them anymore, because 'previous year'" * "previously famous journalist claims it's the USA on his blog, but hardly anyones believe him, because 'anonymous source quoted on a blog'" * "US intelligence claims it was Ukraine based on undisclosed sources". [1] For some reason, "the evil western media" does not seem to have too much trouble accusing Ukraine of sabotages - but we're still playing the "whose undisclosed source do we believe ?" game. Don't insult your intelligence (pun intended) pretending you know better than anyone. We'll wait and see and humbly acknowledge that this one will probably remain in shadow for a while. However, I suspect the "It's obviously the CIA, stupid" narrative will go on forever. It's just too catchy. "On ne prête qu'aux riches". [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-p...

wsc981 4y ago
I don’t think it’s rocket science. - Condoleeza Rice [2014]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btk_Ldd3NF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btk_Ldd3NF0 - Biden & Schulz [2022]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8 - US warns German port of crushing sanctions [2020]: https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-us-senators-threaten-german-port-with-crushing-sanctions/a-54473119 https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-us-senators-threaten-ger...
- phtrivier 4y ago
  Oh, it's no rocket science that the USA have been against the pipeline for a while, that they have been pressuring Germany to reduce dependency on Russia for strategic reason, and that they have a vested interest in the pipeline going away (since they are themselves selling gas to replace it.) Which just makes them _one_ of the many parties that have an intereset in blowing up the pipeline. Again, it's really tempting to jump to this conclusion, not at all unreasonnable or unrealistic, it's just that there _are_ alternatives, and we're still in the mist about that. It's not rocket science, it's much worse: it's geopolitics. At least in rocket science, you have launches as a "moment of truth" (rocket up / rocket not up.) We love it in HN because it's both very hard to do and very simple to interpret. Politics ? The exact opposite. Very simple to lie / deceit / build narrative, hardly impossible to get a clear answer on anything - you can always add a "rail in the pool" and build a "credible" alternative narrative. (My personnal "favorite guess", which is really nothing than that, would be that Ukraine would have done it with some light support (trainging ? intelligence ?) from the USA, while Germany was just "looking the other way". This would provide a "win" for Ukraine, "plausible deniability" for the USA, and "one negoctiation chip less" for Russia to put pressure on Germany - sometimes, constraints are liberating. Pure speculation. No data. I won't feel bad if it ends up being wrong. Would feel better if the war could just stop tomorrow.) I suppose the closest thing we have to an "arbitrer of truth" will be the Nordics-based investigation ? Sweden is not in NATO yet, Norway and Denmark do not seem particularly hawkish (but I could be wrong), yet they don't have friendly ties to Russia, it's weird stuff happening "close to home"... who knows ? Knowing this is not exactly in my circle of control. I'm more interested in how we're going to make EU neither "Russian-gas dependant", nor "US-gas dependant", nor "Middle-East-gas dependant".

wsc981 4y ago

I don’t think it’s rocket science. - Condoleeza Rice [2014]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btk_Ldd3NF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btk_Ldd3NF0 - Biden & Schulz [2022]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8 - US warns German port of crushing sanctions [2020]: https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-us-senators-threaten-german-port-with-crushing-sanctions/a-54473119 https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-us-senators-threaten-ger...

phtrivier 4y ago
Oh, it's no rocket science that the USA have been against the pipeline for a while, that they have been pressuring Germany to reduce dependency on Russia for strategic reason, and that they have a vested interest in the pipeline going away (since they are themselves selling gas to replace it.) Which just makes them _one_ of the many parties that have an intereset in blowing up the pipeline. Again, it's really tempting to jump to this conclusion, not at all unreasonnable or unrealistic, it's just that there _are_ alternatives, and we're still in the mist about that. It's not rocket science, it's much worse: it's geopolitics. At least in rocket science, you have launches as a "moment of truth" (rocket up / rocket not up.) We love it in HN because it's both very hard to do and very simple to interpret. Politics ? The exact opposite. Very simple to lie / deceit / build narrative, hardly impossible to get a clear answer on anything - you can always add a "rail in the pool" and build a "credible" alternative narrative. (My personnal "favorite guess", which is really nothing than that, would be that Ukraine would have done it with some light support (trainging ? intelligence ?) from the USA, while Germany was just "looking the other way". This would provide a "win" for Ukraine, "plausible deniability" for the USA, and "one negoctiation chip less" for Russia to put pressure on Germany - sometimes, constraints are liberating. Pure speculation. No data. I won't feel bad if it ends up being wrong. Would feel better if the war could just stop tomorrow.) I suppose the closest thing we have to an "arbitrer of truth" will be the Nordics-based investigation ? Sweden is not in NATO yet, Norway and Denmark do not seem particularly hawkish (but I could be wrong), yet they don't have friendly ties to Russia, it's weird stuff happening "close to home"... who knows ? Knowing this is not exactly in my circle of control. I'm more interested in how we're going to make EU neither "Russian-gas dependant", nor "US-gas dependant", nor "Middle-East-gas dependant".