4 ms·

I agree with his points about treating it like commercial software (in terms of having a website/screenshots/etc) but paradoxically the more professional an ope

I agree with his points about treating it like commercial software (in terms of having a website/screenshots/etc) but paradoxically the more professional an open source site looks, the more I assume there's going to be a catch. When you find a utility which has a site that looks like Richard Stallman's website you breathe easily because it's unlikely there's going to be any time-limited trial version, subscription models, ads-in-application, etc.

netr0ute 4y ago
Although this may be true for you, as shown by SumatraPDF, this is probably a characteristic of only a small demographic.
thejosh 4y ago
PDF readers are probably the opposite for the target demographic, given it's for Windows. It's a great reader last time I used it. But agreed, many forget certain programs/tools/etc don't need to be actively to be updated once they just "work". Unless it's been rewritten in Rust, or if it's slightly older Go ;-).
acuozzo 4y ago
> but paradoxically the more professional an open source site looks, the more I assume there's going to be a catch I hate to admit this, but I feel the same way when it comes to programmers themselves. I've tried very, very hard to be mindful of this in an effort to correct it, but I still have this gut feeling when I encounter a fellow programmer with the general put-together-ness of someone in the C-suite. What makes it worse is that I've had this gut feeling validated several times in the past. I once worked with a very cover-of-GQ programmer who, after ten+ years in the industry, would struggle with FizzBuzz-esque problems.
- sph 4y ago
  Likewise, I'd never trust a software engineer in a suit, unless it's for a project written in Java or COBOL. Nor a sysadmin that isn't wearing black, running Linux and/or listening to metal. Unless they have a white beard, then you know they have been around for a while. (Just partially serious here, don't read too much into it. But you know it's true.)
  - xarope 4y ago
    Much like some people like wearing a nice watch, pants, etc, I like wearing a nicely cut suit or jacket. Is that really any different to people wearing a comfortable pair of jeans? And paradoxically, I have carried server equipment wearing an italian suit, whilst others were bemoaning dust getting on their levis jeans... So please, please don't judge a book by it's cover. Actions speak louder.
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      Carrying server equipment wearing an italian suit is an action though !
    - acuozzo 4y ago
      > I like wearing a nicely cut suit or jacket. Suits don't set off my bullshit detector. Legitimate hackers have had to wear them since the dawn of computing. The devil is in the details. Alarm bells start to ring for me when the sum of the details exceeds what my gut feels is reasonable. Being worthy of the cover of GQ takes a ton of time, energy, and resources to maintain. Managing to maintain the same perfect tan all year is an investment for sure, but not necessarily an investment that aligns with the hacker ethos.
- tacotacotaco 4y ago
  I’m far from cover-of-GQ but I did wear a suit every day for a few years to a programming job. Maybe it’s the punk in me but when every person in the company, including the C suite, dressed in a t-shirt and jeans or sweats I felt the need to be a little counter culture. Honestly it was an insightful experiment in biases, seeing how different people treated me (such as your admission) based on my clothes alone. … and I have no trouble writing fizz buzz.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    " Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society." Mark Twain
  - acuozzo 4y ago
    > I did wear a suit every day for a few years to a programming job Was it a tailored suit by a designer brand? Alternatively, was it a fancy bespoke suit? Suits usually don't set off my bullshit detector. Many legitimate hackers have had to wear them since the dawn of computing. It's the details that catch my eye. The money, priorities, and (most import of all!) time are in the details.
unity1001 4y ago
On the contrary. As a user, if I cannot see that the software makers are either a big, well backed project OR at least they are able to sustain themselves by selling premium versions etc, I avoid using it. Most of the projects that cannot fund themselves eventually get abandoned, leaving you, as the user, hanging. After getting burned by that a few times, I learned that the only way to deal with it was to ensure that those who run a project will be able to justify putting time into it when the actual realities and responsibilities of life like career, family, children etc start raining down. Its all fun and games when you are in college or fresh out of college and maintaining an open source project. But the time and effort put into it suddenly becomes difficult to justify when you have more responsibilities at work, or even further, a family to which you have to justify spending that time on that project. Now, the assumption of open source community is that, when that happens, someone else will take over the project and it will just keep going on. Except it rarely happens except for very large projects. The net is filled with abandoned projects. And even when someone takes over the project, there is no guarantee that the original vision and quality will be kept. So its much better to make sure that every open source project has a way to fund itself and its developers by making money in some way.
- creyes12345 4y ago
  I share this sentiment. First I try to figure out their monetization strategy. Not finding it is a red flag unless it is obviously a small side project. Then I try to figure out where I am in their funnel. How hard are they likely to try to force me to get the paid version? Finally, I ask myself if I see myself eventually paying for the product if I need to. For example, is it a company I respect and is the product priced fairly?
- GoblinSlayer 4y ago
  I use two abandoned projects: text editor and ebook reader, they work better than alternatives.
xeromal 4y ago
Yup, if I use a software that looks like a shareware site from the early 2000s, I use it knowing it's been reliable for a long long time.
GoblinSlayer 4y ago
In case someone didn't know what a website of commercial software looks like, here you go: https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/

netr0ute 4y ago

Although this may be true for you, as shown by SumatraPDF, this is probably a characteristic of only a small demographic.

thejosh 4y ago

PDF readers are probably the opposite for the target demographic, given it's for Windows. It's a great reader last time I used it. But agreed, many forget certain programs/tools/etc don't need to be actively to be updated once they just "work". Unless it's been rewritten in Rust, or if it's slightly older Go ;-).

acuozzo 4y ago

> but paradoxically the more professional an open source site looks, the more I assume there's going to be a catch I hate to admit this, but I feel the same way when it comes to programmers themselves. I've tried very, very hard to be mindful of this in an effort to correct it, but I still have this gut feeling when I encounter a fellow programmer with the general put-together-ness of someone in the C-suite. What makes it worse is that I've had this gut feeling validated several times in the past. I once worked with a very cover-of-GQ programmer who, after ten+ years in the industry, would struggle with FizzBuzz-esque problems.

sph 4y ago
Likewise, I'd never trust a software engineer in a suit, unless it's for a project written in Java or COBOL. Nor a sysadmin that isn't wearing black, running Linux and/or listening to metal. Unless they have a white beard, then you know they have been around for a while. (Just partially serious here, don't read too much into it. But you know it's true.)
- xarope 4y ago
  Much like some people like wearing a nice watch, pants, etc, I like wearing a nicely cut suit or jacket. Is that really any different to people wearing a comfortable pair of jeans? And paradoxically, I have carried server equipment wearing an italian suit, whilst others were bemoaning dust getting on their levis jeans... So please, please don't judge a book by it's cover. Actions speak louder.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    Carrying server equipment wearing an italian suit is an action though !
  - acuozzo 4y ago
    > I like wearing a nicely cut suit or jacket. Suits don't set off my bullshit detector. Legitimate hackers have had to wear them since the dawn of computing. The devil is in the details. Alarm bells start to ring for me when the sum of the details exceeds what my gut feels is reasonable. Being worthy of the cover of GQ takes a ton of time, energy, and resources to maintain. Managing to maintain the same perfect tan all year is an investment for sure, but not necessarily an investment that aligns with the hacker ethos.
tacotacotaco 4y ago
I’m far from cover-of-GQ but I did wear a suit every day for a few years to a programming job. Maybe it’s the punk in me but when every person in the company, including the C suite, dressed in a t-shirt and jeans or sweats I felt the need to be a little counter culture. Honestly it was an insightful experiment in biases, seeing how different people treated me (such as your admission) based on my clothes alone. … and I have no trouble writing fizz buzz.
- hulitu 4y ago
  " Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society." Mark Twain
- acuozzo 4y ago
  > I did wear a suit every day for a few years to a programming job Was it a tailored suit by a designer brand? Alternatively, was it a fancy bespoke suit? Suits usually don't set off my bullshit detector. Many legitimate hackers have had to wear them since the dawn of computing. It's the details that catch my eye. The money, priorities, and (most import of all!) time are in the details.

unity1001 4y ago

On the contrary. As a user, if I cannot see that the software makers are either a big, well backed project OR at least they are able to sustain themselves by selling premium versions etc, I avoid using it. Most of the projects that cannot fund themselves eventually get abandoned, leaving you, as the user, hanging. After getting burned by that a few times, I learned that the only way to deal with it was to ensure that those who run a project will be able to justify putting time into it when the actual realities and responsibilities of life like career, family, children etc start raining down. Its all fun and games when you are in college or fresh out of college and maintaining an open source project. But the time and effort put into it suddenly becomes difficult to justify when you have more responsibilities at work, or even further, a family to which you have to justify spending that time on that project. Now, the assumption of open source community is that, when that happens, someone else will take over the project and it will just keep going on. Except it rarely happens except for very large projects. The net is filled with abandoned projects. And even when someone takes over the project, there is no guarantee that the original vision and quality will be kept. So its much better to make sure that every open source project has a way to fund itself and its developers by making money in some way.

creyes12345 4y ago
I share this sentiment. First I try to figure out their monetization strategy. Not finding it is a red flag unless it is obviously a small side project. Then I try to figure out where I am in their funnel. How hard are they likely to try to force me to get the paid version? Finally, I ask myself if I see myself eventually paying for the product if I need to. For example, is it a company I respect and is the product priced fairly?
GoblinSlayer 4y ago
I use two abandoned projects: text editor and ebook reader, they work better than alternatives.

xeromal 4y ago

Yup, if I use a software that looks like a shareware site from the early 2000s, I use it knowing it's been reliable for a long long time.

GoblinSlayer 4y ago

In case someone didn't know what a website of commercial software looks like, here you go: https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/