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I hope Ukraine can beat Russia and liberate it's territory in 2014 borders, but it's far from a done deal. Currently Russia produces more ammo than all NATO cou

I hope Ukraine can beat Russia and liberate it's territory in 2014 borders, but it's far from a done deal. Currently Russia produces more ammo than all NATO countries combined. Ukraine allies need to open new assembly lines for ammo production, as a successful attack on the pretty well prepared Russian defences will take a ton of artillery shells. Looks like Russia mobilized over half a million soldiers so far (while officially stating 300K). Their military factories are working on 3 shifts 24/7. When they produce enough equipment and weapons no doubt they'll do a new wave of mobilization. Long term Russia can mobilize more soldiers than Ukraine, so NATO has to compensate by supplying Ukraine with big amount of artillery, tanks, fuel, equipment and most importantly ammo.

medo-bear 4y ago
[flagged]
- andrejguran 4y ago
  why would they send citizens? NATO has 3.3mil army vs 800k of Russia
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    i think terms like troops, army, etc. have potential to be 'newspeak'. in every case we are talking about citizens. and whats most worrying if things get really hot ... reservists then conscription. just ask russians and ukranians ... or vietnam vets. personally im very worried about the prospect of world war but media seems to be fueling this hero brave pro-war attitude and people seem to be buying it! putin must be punished for his crimes, but do not pretend that us and nato are any better
    - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
      > media seems to be fueling this hero brave pro-war attitude I don't think any serious media is pro-war, it's more like we have two choices: (1) either send weapons, or (2) watch Ukrainians die and become slaves of Putin. This is a tough moral choice because either involves killing, but we don't have the luxury of having more choices. If we don't do anything, Ukrainians will suffer. If we ask Urkainians to surrender, they won't even listen because they know how cruel their fate will be.
    - andrejguran 4y ago
      ofc you can call army troops citizens as well. But then going back to your question if they're prepared for it, well I hope so because that's the army's job to be prepared. But I don't think you original question whether citizens are prepared was aiming only at "army citizens" but regular citizens. And for this I don't see why would regular citizens be conscripted. Currently Ukraine is able to hold russia with limited resources from the west. We have actually the opposite problem if NATO would have a full scale war with russia NATO would win too fast which is problem because it would be an existential crisis for russia and they'd have to use nuclear weapons. So no, regular citizens of NATO countries will very unlikely be conscripted for war with russia as NATO is slowly winning without a single soldier in battle.
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        so you do think that time will come for professional nato soldiers to come to ukraine to fight russia ?
        andrejguran 4y ago
        no I don't. And I was trying to explain why I don't think so as it would escalate the conflict possibly to a nuclear one as NATO entering Ukraine would cause russia to lose very quickly
        medo-bear 4y ago
        see the problem i have with this is the constant pushing of boundaries. first it was small defensive weapons. then small offensive weapons. then large defensive weapons. then large offensive weapons. now its fighter jets. whats next? at the same time a narative is being developed in all the major media that the freedom of europe and west depends on ukranian victory. if thats the case, whats the next logical conclusion if ukraine actually begins to lose the war? to me this smells of preparation of the general population for a (much) larger war
        haspok 4y ago
    - haspok 4y ago
      You should study pre-WW2 history, what happened when Hitler anschlussed Austria, Czechia, then invaded Poland and then turned west. Meanwhile the allied powers tried to close their eyes and were thinking that if they leave Hitler be there will be peace. It cost the world 6 years and a few million dead people to prove this idea wrong. And if you think that the western world is not any better than Putin, well, I wish you a very happy life somewhere in Russia...
      - medo-bear 4y ago
        [flagged]
        haspok 4y ago
        > you would send me to russia for having a different opinion? No, you totally misread that. I did not want to send you anywhere. I just wish people put their money where their mouth is. If you are living in a developed country it's easy to romanticize a communist dictatorship (or not communist anymore - who cares), where writing your opinion in a public forum would actually get you in real trouble (as in prison, or worse), as opposed to another forum user writing a critical response to your message. > if you study history of rise of fascism it all began with supression of differeing opinions Am I suppresssing you now? Or to take one step further, are you calling me a nazi, just because I don't agree with you and I dare to reply? Wow. > first they came for the jews, but i was not jewish. then they came for the communists, but i was not a communist ... then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me And what does this quote have to do with anything in this thread?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        my money is litteraly where my mouth is. where i also pay my taxes. you on the other hand told me my place is in russia. no its not. its in my homeland which i love. and no i dont see a contradiction between pointing out the hypocricy of my government and wanting to live where i live. on the contrary i voice my opinions because i belive that the people who live where i live deserve better. and i do for the reccord believe that the involvement of my government in the wars led by the US for the past three decades were a crime. it is because of these crimes that we have fed the likes of people like putin to become popular
- MrRiddle 4y ago
  [dead]
wsc981 4y ago
[flagged]
- yetihehe 4y ago
  > I don’t want this war to continue. Neither do Ukrainians. But they don't have much of a choice really. > Already too many people died on both sides. And who started that? > This is not my war and I don’t want to get involved in any way. > I’m 40 years old and I want to care for my family (daughter & girlfriend). Yeah, as do Ukrainians, but they can't because someone wants to kill them just because they didn't like the idea of no longer being Ukrainians. > It’s a shame the Western world and Ukraine deceived Russia with the Minsk accords. Ukrainians wanted to be working more closely with the west. Would you like to be relocated to Russia, or going to prison and your daughter going to orphanage if you didn't want to be Russian [0]? [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/01/russia-children-antiwar-crackdown-father/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/01/russia-child...
  - severino 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - sshine 4y ago
    > And who started that? I’m not sure this question leads anywhere. I’d like to know, what must be the case for Russia to be able to withdraw from Ukraine? They may have started, but I’ve heard a claim that for strategic reasons, Russia was compelled to invade; compelled to continue the invasion. Even if that’s not true, what can the EU do while Ukraine is defending so that Russia is incentivised to switch from war to commerce?
    - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
      Russia wasn't compelled. It was Putin who felt it was his time to become "Putin the Great" and to "solve the Ukrainian issue"[0] by invading a sovereign country. Can anything be done? I don't think we can do much except supplying weapons. Putin can not admit defeat, that's unthinkable for him. So he will send many young and old men to die, until the political situation changes, but I don't believe it can happen anytime soon. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240
jemmyw 4y ago
The production question is a little more subtle than that. Russia has been running down it's huge stocks of Soviet era artillery ammo and it's not producing enough to replace it. Plus it's not all in great condition as some of it is very old. So far Ukraine has been able to be far far more efficient than Russia, which has just been using a bombardment philosophy. Note that it's not just ammo but also barrels as they also get used up and need replacing. Russia can no longer maintain the kind of bombardment it was doing last summer. And they have nearly no capacity to replace the sophisticated guided missiles they've used up, whereas those are available to NATO, and we've seen those be a lot more effective than the dumb artillery. NATO has large stocks of 155mm shells. But they can also buy them because it's become a standard outside of the non Russian influence world. South Korea has a huge production and stock that is under negotiation. Numbers around mobilization are really iffy. I watched an opposition Russian politician yesterday saying no more than 200,000 had been drafted, so your number is the opposite direction to his. I bet even the Kremlin doesn't know the true number due to the way the regions were instructed to draft.
- Balgair 4y ago
  RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by hand (!). They can't seem to pour a flat enough concrete pad for forklifts to run atop. Even if they had all that, they are outranged by NATO missiles, so all ammo dumps have to be very far away from the front (90+ km). Munitions and supplies must be moved in small and uneven batches on poor roads and with overworked crews and equipment over multiple days. UA forces share some of these issues, but not as badly.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by hand (!). They can't seem to pour a flat enough concrete pad for forklifts to run atop. Do you have a source for that. The last part (especially) is pretty unbelievable. I would assume that the techniques for pouring flat concrete isn't new, and even if they didn't have it, they could just make forklifts with bigger wheels or something. For instance, here's a US military forklift driving on gravel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forklift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forkl.... I do understand the Russians are much more focused on rail for military transport compared to the US, which then let them make design choices that have made it hard to switch to truck transport.
sixstringninja 4y ago
Russia will most likely mobilize and throw about 500k of soldiers at the war. This has been done before by Russia in previous wars. We will probably see the fruits of support and resources by the end of this summer. I’m hoping.. praying that the Ukrainians are able to fight off this zombie invasion

medo-bear 4y ago

[flagged]

andrejguran 4y ago
why would they send citizens? NATO has 3.3mil army vs 800k of Russia
- medo-bear 4y ago
  i think terms like troops, army, etc. have potential to be 'newspeak'. in every case we are talking about citizens. and whats most worrying if things get really hot ... reservists then conscription. just ask russians and ukranians ... or vietnam vets. personally im very worried about the prospect of world war but media seems to be fueling this hero brave pro-war attitude and people seem to be buying it! putin must be punished for his crimes, but do not pretend that us and nato are any better
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    > media seems to be fueling this hero brave pro-war attitude I don't think any serious media is pro-war, it's more like we have two choices: (1) either send weapons, or (2) watch Ukrainians die and become slaves of Putin. This is a tough moral choice because either involves killing, but we don't have the luxury of having more choices. If we don't do anything, Ukrainians will suffer. If we ask Urkainians to surrender, they won't even listen because they know how cruel their fate will be.
  - andrejguran 4y ago
    ofc you can call army troops citizens as well. But then going back to your question if they're prepared for it, well I hope so because that's the army's job to be prepared. But I don't think you original question whether citizens are prepared was aiming only at "army citizens" but regular citizens. And for this I don't see why would regular citizens be conscripted. Currently Ukraine is able to hold russia with limited resources from the west. We have actually the opposite problem if NATO would have a full scale war with russia NATO would win too fast which is problem because it would be an existential crisis for russia and they'd have to use nuclear weapons. So no, regular citizens of NATO countries will very unlikely be conscripted for war with russia as NATO is slowly winning without a single soldier in battle.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      so you do think that time will come for professional nato soldiers to come to ukraine to fight russia ?
      - andrejguran 4y ago
        no I don't. And I was trying to explain why I don't think so as it would escalate the conflict possibly to a nuclear one as NATO entering Ukraine would cause russia to lose very quickly
        medo-bear 4y ago
        see the problem i have with this is the constant pushing of boundaries. first it was small defensive weapons. then small offensive weapons. then large defensive weapons. then large offensive weapons. now its fighter jets. whats next? at the same time a narative is being developed in all the major media that the freedom of europe and west depends on ukranian victory. if thats the case, whats the next logical conclusion if ukraine actually begins to lose the war? to me this smells of preparation of the general population for a (much) larger war
        haspok 4y ago
  - haspok 4y ago
    You should study pre-WW2 history, what happened when Hitler anschlussed Austria, Czechia, then invaded Poland and then turned west. Meanwhile the allied powers tried to close their eyes and were thinking that if they leave Hitler be there will be peace. It cost the world 6 years and a few million dead people to prove this idea wrong. And if you think that the western world is not any better than Putin, well, I wish you a very happy life somewhere in Russia...
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - haspok 4y ago
        > you would send me to russia for having a different opinion? No, you totally misread that. I did not want to send you anywhere. I just wish people put their money where their mouth is. If you are living in a developed country it's easy to romanticize a communist dictatorship (or not communist anymore - who cares), where writing your opinion in a public forum would actually get you in real trouble (as in prison, or worse), as opposed to another forum user writing a critical response to your message. > if you study history of rise of fascism it all began with supression of differeing opinions Am I suppresssing you now? Or to take one step further, are you calling me a nazi, just because I don't agree with you and I dare to reply? Wow. > first they came for the jews, but i was not jewish. then they came for the communists, but i was not a communist ... then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me And what does this quote have to do with anything in this thread?
        medo-bear 4y ago
        my money is litteraly where my mouth is. where i also pay my taxes. you on the other hand told me my place is in russia. no its not. its in my homeland which i love. and no i dont see a contradiction between pointing out the hypocricy of my government and wanting to live where i live. on the contrary i voice my opinions because i belive that the people who live where i live deserve better. and i do for the reccord believe that the involvement of my government in the wars led by the US for the past three decades were a crime. it is because of these crimes that we have fed the likes of people like putin to become popular
MrRiddle 4y ago
[dead]

wsc981 4y ago

[flagged]

yetihehe 4y ago
> I don’t want this war to continue. Neither do Ukrainians. But they don't have much of a choice really. > Already too many people died on both sides. And who started that? > This is not my war and I don’t want to get involved in any way. > I’m 40 years old and I want to care for my family (daughter & girlfriend). Yeah, as do Ukrainians, but they can't because someone wants to kill them just because they didn't like the idea of no longer being Ukrainians. > It’s a shame the Western world and Ukraine deceived Russia with the Minsk accords. Ukrainians wanted to be working more closely with the west. Would you like to be relocated to Russia, or going to prison and your daughter going to orphanage if you didn't want to be Russian [0]? [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/01/russia-children-antiwar-crackdown-father/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/01/russia-child...
- severino 4y ago
  [flagged]
- sshine 4y ago
  > And who started that? I’m not sure this question leads anywhere. I’d like to know, what must be the case for Russia to be able to withdraw from Ukraine? They may have started, but I’ve heard a claim that for strategic reasons, Russia was compelled to invade; compelled to continue the invasion. Even if that’s not true, what can the EU do while Ukraine is defending so that Russia is incentivised to switch from war to commerce?
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    Russia wasn't compelled. It was Putin who felt it was his time to become "Putin the Great" and to "solve the Ukrainian issue"[0] by invading a sovereign country. Can anything be done? I don't think we can do much except supplying weapons. Putin can not admit defeat, that's unthinkable for him. So he will send many young and old men to die, until the political situation changes, but I don't believe it can happen anytime soon. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240

jemmyw 4y ago

The production question is a little more subtle than that. Russia has been running down it's huge stocks of Soviet era artillery ammo and it's not producing enough to replace it. Plus it's not all in great condition as some of it is very old. So far Ukraine has been able to be far far more efficient than Russia, which has just been using a bombardment philosophy. Note that it's not just ammo but also barrels as they also get used up and need replacing. Russia can no longer maintain the kind of bombardment it was doing last summer. And they have nearly no capacity to replace the sophisticated guided missiles they've used up, whereas those are available to NATO, and we've seen those be a lot more effective than the dumb artillery. NATO has large stocks of 155mm shells. But they can also buy them because it's become a standard outside of the non Russian influence world. South Korea has a huge production and stock that is under negotiation. Numbers around mobilization are really iffy. I watched an opposition Russian politician yesterday saying no more than 200,000 had been drafted, so your number is the opposite direction to his. I bet even the Kremlin doesn't know the true number due to the way the regions were instructed to draft.

Balgair 4y ago
RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by hand (!). They can't seem to pour a flat enough concrete pad for forklifts to run atop. Even if they had all that, they are outranged by NATO missiles, so all ammo dumps have to be very far away from the front (90+ km). Munitions and supplies must be moved in small and uneven batches on poor roads and with overworked crews and equipment over multiple days. UA forces share some of these issues, but not as badly.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > RF also has virtually no modern logistics for ammo storage or transport. They have no forklifts and few cranes. Most ordnance is moved via rail and then by hand (!). They can't seem to pour a flat enough concrete pad for forklifts to run atop. Do you have a source for that. The last part (especially) is pretty unbelievable. I would assume that the techniques for pouring flat concrete isn't new, and even if they didn't have it, they could just make forklifts with bigger wheels or something. For instance, here's a US military forklift driving on gravel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forklift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift#Counterbalanced_forkl.... I do understand the Russians are much more focused on rail for military transport compared to the US, which then let them make design choices that have made it hard to switch to truck transport.

sixstringninja 4y ago

Russia will most likely mobilize and throw about 500k of soldiers at the war. This has been done before by Russia in previous wars. We will probably see the fruits of support and resources by the end of this summer. I’m hoping.. praying that the Ukrainians are able to fight off this zombie invasion