6 ms·

This wall of text is worth reading. It's a clever, but somewhat clumsy introduction of the anti-religion, which in the future will be introduced properly by a f

by akomtu 4y ago

This wall of text is worth reading. It's a clever, but somewhat clumsy introduction of the anti-religion, which in the future will be introduced properly by a far greater mind, and that anti-religion will burn society to the ground. The essense of the anti-religion will be encouraging cruelty and unrestrained sexual passions - the two things strictly banned today. His "multilayered worlds" vision is more valuable, but he never had interest to explore that more.

thriftwy 4y ago
I wonder why they all did that in the late XIX, early XX century? The communist/socialist revolutionaries also wanted to burn society to the ground by encouraging cruelty and unrestrained sexual passions (glass of water theory[1]). Some of them succeeded and did exactly as advertised. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_of_water_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_of_water_theory
- pjc50 4y ago
  A number of comments have put "cruelty" and "unrestrained sexual passions" next to each other as if they were linked, but without actually expressing the linkage? I would put both the guy in the original article, in his context of colonial America, and Communist revolutionaries in Russia, in the context of people who were excluded from the possibility of power by heredity rather than sex per se. The Southern states did this by race and Imperial Russia was literally a feudal society. Both also spectacularly cruel in their own way.
  - tsegratis 4y ago
    I suppose the unbridled id? If i want a cheaper iphone, im pleased for u to face slavery if it gets to me cheaper and quicker (cruelty) Same with unrestrained sexual passion. For instance if i add to the end of that sentence "on a minor." If u don't like that addition; well then u are against unrestrained sexual passion Which i would say good thing -- A suggestion: Love your neighbor, is getting replaced with love yourself U are welcome to disagree
    - pjc50 4y ago
      > For instance if i add to the end of that sentence "on a minor." You get a different sentence?
      - EL_Loco 4y ago
        I guess what parent is saying is that 'unrestrained' means you can add any word after the "with a ________", since it's unrestrained. I have to disagree, though. Haven't we, as a society, been restricting (rightfully so in my opinion) more and more those sexual passions which we deem to be very harmful to the ones being sexualized?
        tsegratis 4y ago
        Thanks both of u for being kind to me. I realize it is a hard issue to converse on, so i wont say too much But since you're kind :) Yeah. I suppose without sex, there are no children, and without children eventually there is no sex So completely restrained is also wrong. Sex has it's context, and should be restrained within it. Children have their context and should be restrained within it Which is what you're probably saying; to me "unrestrained sexual passion." doesn't mean that. So yeah, we're kinda in agreement, and questioning where the balance falls. That's a good place to be in -- My suggested balance: focus on your spouse's benefit. That leads to _much_ more enjoyable outcomes. I have worked with prostitutes in the past (mostly trafficked women), and i can say forced sex, or unrestrained passion irrespective of another's feelings -- completely removes enjoyment -- unless the person doing it is also cruel So my balance would be "love your neighbor as yourself." I realize people can be unhappy with that for many reasons, but i suggest it is at least worthy of discussion So thanks
        EL_Loco 4y ago
        I actually meant "grandparent" instead of "parent". So I'm actually agreeing with you. "unrestrained sexual passion" can then mean almost any kind of sexual passion, since it's 'unrestrained', which will lead to sexual practices that we, as a society, have deemed to be very destructive to the individuals on the receiving end of that 'passion'.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    That turned out to be a good thing after all, because they mostly used that power towards cruelty. Countries where power is still in the same hands (Japan, USA, Britain, even Germany) are all comparatively better off than ones where it changed hands via street violence (China, Soviet Russia, Iran, and arguably even the modern example of Ukraine). It's not like they took power to open cafes serving pumpkin latte. Maybe the limiting of your power is cruel, but killing (starving, forced labor) you is much more cruel in my opinion. And at the end of day, 99,9% of people are still powerless because there's too many people and only a limited number of positions of power.
    - pjc50 4y ago
      > Countries where power is still in the same hands (Japan Absolutely insane example to use in the context of an article about Paschal Beverly Randolph (b. 1825), given that since 1825 Japan went from feudalism -> forcible opening of the country by US gunboat -> industrial colonialist empire -> democracy imposed by US gunboat > ones where it changed hands via street violence Ireland? France? Arguably, the United States?
      - thriftwy 4y ago
        Japan still had mostly the same people near the top during all of these transitions. They only changed form without changing the essense. France lost a great deal due to their revolution. They still have to praise it because that's the foundation of their state, but in fact they has lost huge number of their best people (murdered or defecting to their competitors) and were dethroned as the country controlling Europe. And you can see their neighbours who did not do that costly mistake and now comparatively better off (caught up where they were previously incomparable). Ireland had national independence movement - these fare better than plain "I win, you lose" revolutions.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Isn't drinking water essential to survive though?
xupybd 4y ago
Where do you stand on this encouraging cruelty and burning society to the ground thing? They sound bad to me but I get a sense that you don't think so?
rainworld 4y ago
“There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”
- nine_k 4y ago
  While the social norms around sexuality in the Western world keep relaxing, the norms around cruelty only seem to become more restrictive. (Which I find the exactly right course of development, given the reality of contraceptive drugs on one hand, and weapons on the other.)
  - rainworld 4y ago
    I guess this “cruelty” GP is talking about should be understood as “do what thou wilt” on the personal level. Or something like Nick Land’s anti-human “coldness”[0] on the societal level? Or maybe (what’s necessary to get to) the O9A’s[1] grand vision of a nazi-satanic galactic civilization? Making inroads but we’re definitely not there yet. As for the sexual revolution, let’s talk about Alfred Kinsey, for a little bit of perspective: Apart from being funded by the Rockefellers from early on (go figure), committing academic fraud with malicious intent (performing “magick” on America and the world one might say), assembling a large collection of sexual blackmail material (now a familiar trope), working hard to normalize pedophilia (quite possibly being one himself), it is a little known fact that Alfred Kinsey was a deep admirer of Aleister Crowley: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/677651075150657182/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/677651075150657182/ There is, of course, much more to say about the sexual revolution and how it was engineered. And, given the topic at hand, by whom and why. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/qcx6lb/comment/hhkp5lw https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/qcx6lb/comme... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles
    - pjc50 4y ago
      The sexual revolution does not rest entirely on Kinsey, nor was it "engineered".
      - 4y ago
omnibrain 4y ago
Reminds me of the "anarcho-satanistic" anti religion of Illuminatus! and subsequent works. It's been ~20 years since I read it, but it may be that they even referenced him, but they were more into "mainstream occultists" like Crowley, IIRC.
lordfrito 4y ago
> anti-religion will burn society to the ground > The essence of the anti-religion will be encouraging cruelty A society that encourages cruelty will indeed be burned to the ground. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

by akomtu 4y ago

thriftwy 4y ago

I wonder why they all did that in the late XIX, early XX century? The communist/socialist revolutionaries also wanted to burn society to the ground by encouraging cruelty and unrestrained sexual passions (glass of water theory[1]). Some of them succeeded and did exactly as advertised. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_of_water_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_of_water_theory

pjc50 4y ago
A number of comments have put "cruelty" and "unrestrained sexual passions" next to each other as if they were linked, but without actually expressing the linkage? I would put both the guy in the original article, in his context of colonial America, and Communist revolutionaries in Russia, in the context of people who were excluded from the possibility of power by heredity rather than sex per se. The Southern states did this by race and Imperial Russia was literally a feudal society. Both also spectacularly cruel in their own way.
- tsegratis 4y ago
  I suppose the unbridled id? If i want a cheaper iphone, im pleased for u to face slavery if it gets to me cheaper and quicker (cruelty) Same with unrestrained sexual passion. For instance if i add to the end of that sentence "on a minor." If u don't like that addition; well then u are against unrestrained sexual passion Which i would say good thing -- A suggestion: Love your neighbor, is getting replaced with love yourself U are welcome to disagree
  - pjc50 4y ago
    > For instance if i add to the end of that sentence "on a minor." You get a different sentence?
    - EL_Loco 4y ago
      I guess what parent is saying is that 'unrestrained' means you can add any word after the "with a ________", since it's unrestrained. I have to disagree, though. Haven't we, as a society, been restricting (rightfully so in my opinion) more and more those sexual passions which we deem to be very harmful to the ones being sexualized?
      - tsegratis 4y ago
        Thanks both of u for being kind to me. I realize it is a hard issue to converse on, so i wont say too much But since you're kind :) Yeah. I suppose without sex, there are no children, and without children eventually there is no sex So completely restrained is also wrong. Sex has it's context, and should be restrained within it. Children have their context and should be restrained within it Which is what you're probably saying; to me "unrestrained sexual passion." doesn't mean that. So yeah, we're kinda in agreement, and questioning where the balance falls. That's a good place to be in -- My suggested balance: focus on your spouse's benefit. That leads to _much_ more enjoyable outcomes. I have worked with prostitutes in the past (mostly trafficked women), and i can say forced sex, or unrestrained passion irrespective of another's feelings -- completely removes enjoyment -- unless the person doing it is also cruel So my balance would be "love your neighbor as yourself." I realize people can be unhappy with that for many reasons, but i suggest it is at least worthy of discussion So thanks
        EL_Loco 4y ago
        I actually meant "grandparent" instead of "parent". So I'm actually agreeing with you. "unrestrained sexual passion" can then mean almost any kind of sexual passion, since it's 'unrestrained', which will lead to sexual practices that we, as a society, have deemed to be very destructive to the individuals on the receiving end of that 'passion'.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  That turned out to be a good thing after all, because they mostly used that power towards cruelty. Countries where power is still in the same hands (Japan, USA, Britain, even Germany) are all comparatively better off than ones where it changed hands via street violence (China, Soviet Russia, Iran, and arguably even the modern example of Ukraine). It's not like they took power to open cafes serving pumpkin latte. Maybe the limiting of your power is cruel, but killing (starving, forced labor) you is much more cruel in my opinion. And at the end of day, 99,9% of people are still powerless because there's too many people and only a limited number of positions of power.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    > Countries where power is still in the same hands (Japan Absolutely insane example to use in the context of an article about Paschal Beverly Randolph (b. 1825), given that since 1825 Japan went from feudalism -> forcible opening of the country by US gunboat -> industrial colonialist empire -> democracy imposed by US gunboat > ones where it changed hands via street violence Ireland? France? Arguably, the United States?
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      Japan still had mostly the same people near the top during all of these transitions. They only changed form without changing the essense. France lost a great deal due to their revolution. They still have to praise it because that's the foundation of their state, but in fact they has lost huge number of their best people (murdered or defecting to their competitors) and were dethroned as the country controlling Europe. And you can see their neighbours who did not do that costly mistake and now comparatively better off (caught up where they were previously incomparable). Ireland had national independence movement - these fare better than plain "I win, you lose" revolutions.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
Isn't drinking water essential to survive though?

xupybd 4y ago

Where do you stand on this encouraging cruelty and burning society to the ground thing? They sound bad to me but I get a sense that you don't think so?

rainworld 4y ago

“There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

nine_k 4y ago
While the social norms around sexuality in the Western world keep relaxing, the norms around cruelty only seem to become more restrictive. (Which I find the exactly right course of development, given the reality of contraceptive drugs on one hand, and weapons on the other.)
- rainworld 4y ago
  I guess this “cruelty” GP is talking about should be understood as “do what thou wilt” on the personal level. Or something like Nick Land’s anti-human “coldness”[0] on the societal level? Or maybe (what’s necessary to get to) the O9A’s[1] grand vision of a nazi-satanic galactic civilization? Making inroads but we’re definitely not there yet. As for the sexual revolution, let’s talk about Alfred Kinsey, for a little bit of perspective: Apart from being funded by the Rockefellers from early on (go figure), committing academic fraud with malicious intent (performing “magick” on America and the world one might say), assembling a large collection of sexual blackmail material (now a familiar trope), working hard to normalize pedophilia (quite possibly being one himself), it is a little known fact that Alfred Kinsey was a deep admirer of Aleister Crowley: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/677651075150657182/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/677651075150657182/ There is, of course, much more to say about the sexual revolution and how it was engineered. And, given the topic at hand, by whom and why. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/qcx6lb/comment/hhkp5lw https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/qcx6lb/comme... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles
  - pjc50 4y ago
    The sexual revolution does not rest entirely on Kinsey, nor was it "engineered".
    - 4y ago

omnibrain 4y ago

Reminds me of the "anarcho-satanistic" anti religion of Illuminatus! and subsequent works. It's been ~20 years since I read it, but it may be that they even referenced him, but they were more into "mainstream occultists" like Crowley, IIRC.

lordfrito 4y ago

> anti-religion will burn society to the ground > The essence of the anti-religion will be encouraging cruelty A society that encourages cruelty will indeed be burned to the ground. Some people just want to watch the world burn.