5 ms·

I'll admit that I don't understand French social security well at all, but based on what I've read online it seems like increasing salaries would actually reduc

by bloppe 4y ago

I'll admit that I don't understand French social security well at all, but based on what I've read online it seems like increasing salaries would actually reduce the amount of money going to social security because that would mean lower profits for employers (who contribute a higher percentage of their income). Obviously, in terms of wealth redistribution, it's better to have higher wages. But increasing them would actually hurt the social security system.

retinaros 4y ago
basically you pay a % of your salary to the pension fund. the higher the salary the more money you pour into. yes it will reduce profits for employers but even that is only short term. if salary rise you are more competitive on the global talent pool and you can do like america where a big chunk of today s giant were built by highly educated immigrants that came mostly because of the high salaries
- candiodari 4y ago
  With inflation at the level that it is, everyone will end up with minimum salary anyway, so what's the point?
  - retinaros 4y ago
    no. inflation is really good in an economy where salaries rise. its good to borrow money, its good for the working population (the one that makes the country thrive) and it is less good for retired people (that already own wealth and lived through better economic times) In France think about it, the majority of the working population voted for Marine LePen, the majority of retired people voted for Macron, Young non working people voted for Melenchon. Hence why macron needs to satisfy his base, old people that retired early and now wants us to work more so that they can enjoy more their stress free life while everything is more expensive for the rest of us.
    - candiodari 4y ago
      I think you'll find French pensions do not rise to keep pace with inflation. And especially not "promised" pensions, you know yours or mine, the pension for people still working.
      - retinaros 4y ago
        yes they did rise this year linked to inflation while at the same time gov insisted for not raising salaries
        candiodari 4y ago
        As I said they did not rise to keep pace with inflation. Which means they got closer to the minimum. The minimum, btw, also dropped, expressed in real goods.
GaelFG 4y ago
"that would mean lower profits for employers (who contribute a higher percentage of their income)" No, for equivalent 'net money on your wallet after tax' a company pay more tax for employees than for company owner. Without detailling too much (and by choosing an 'arbitrary but realistic situation') the are two ways of getting money from your company to your personal bank account : - a specialy taxed "company owner" salary (you can make simulation here : https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/eurl https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/eurl , yes I choose a specific company category, but it's a common one, you can compare with a the 'standard' employee tax numbers : https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ ) which give you benefit from the social security system and which cost a bit less (for a standard company owner range of pay) than an employee salary. - A 'company profit share' at the end of each year. You 'decide' how much you company profit was this year and that you want to give to owner, you pay a "less important tax than on salaries" give it to the owner, and then they pay their personnal income tax on it. The optimisation game is to ensure yourself a sufficient salary to have a good social protection (and other perk like being abble to rent/buy/loan money easily) but also benefit from company income share wich is less taxed. I dont even talk about legal trick to avoid parts of the company income tax, wich is way more complex to handle than a salary.
- bloppe 4y ago
  Cool, thanks for the links!

by bloppe 4y ago

retinaros 4y ago

basically you pay a % of your salary to the pension fund. the higher the salary the more money you pour into. yes it will reduce profits for employers but even that is only short term. if salary rise you are more competitive on the global talent pool and you can do like america where a big chunk of today s giant were built by highly educated immigrants that came mostly because of the high salaries

candiodari 4y ago
With inflation at the level that it is, everyone will end up with minimum salary anyway, so what's the point?
- retinaros 4y ago
  no. inflation is really good in an economy where salaries rise. its good to borrow money, its good for the working population (the one that makes the country thrive) and it is less good for retired people (that already own wealth and lived through better economic times) In France think about it, the majority of the working population voted for Marine LePen, the majority of retired people voted for Macron, Young non working people voted for Melenchon. Hence why macron needs to satisfy his base, old people that retired early and now wants us to work more so that they can enjoy more their stress free life while everything is more expensive for the rest of us.
  - candiodari 4y ago
    I think you'll find French pensions do not rise to keep pace with inflation. And especially not "promised" pensions, you know yours or mine, the pension for people still working.
    - retinaros 4y ago
      yes they did rise this year linked to inflation while at the same time gov insisted for not raising salaries
      - candiodari 4y ago
        As I said they did not rise to keep pace with inflation. Which means they got closer to the minimum. The minimum, btw, also dropped, expressed in real goods.

GaelFG 4y ago

"that would mean lower profits for employers (who contribute a higher percentage of their income)" No, for equivalent 'net money on your wallet after tax' a company pay more tax for employees than for company owner. Without detailling too much (and by choosing an 'arbitrary but realistic situation') the are two ways of getting money from your company to your personal bank account : - a specialy taxed "company owner" salary (you can make simulation here : https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/eurl https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/eurl , yes I choose a specific company category, but it's a common one, you can compare with a the 'standard' employee tax numbers : https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ ) which give you benefit from the social security system and which cost a bit less (for a standard company owner range of pay) than an employee salary. - A 'company profit share' at the end of each year. You 'decide' how much you company profit was this year and that you want to give to owner, you pay a "less important tax than on salaries" give it to the owner, and then they pay their personnal income tax on it. The optimisation game is to ensure yourself a sufficient salary to have a good social protection (and other perk like being abble to rent/buy/loan money easily) but also benefit from company income share wich is less taxed. I dont even talk about legal trick to avoid parts of the company income tax, wich is way more complex to handle than a salary.

bloppe 4y ago
Cool, thanks for the links!