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For cars, the charging part is inconvenient and there's still not enough infrastructure. So maybe combine a 20 kW battery with a hydrogen fuel cell rather than

by petre 4y ago

For cars, the charging part is inconvenient and there's still not enough infrastructure. So maybe combine a 20 kW battery with a hydrogen fuel cell rather than use superchargers. All charging stations are busy? Fine, get a refill of H2 and go.

willio58 4y ago
Hydrogen is even harder to find than charging infrastructure. It’s not easy to convert a gas station into a hydrogen station. To me the two solutions revolve around simple battery tech. 1. Charging stations like we have now but 100x as many. 2. Battery swap stations a la Nio in China. In their system you buy the car (for pretty cheap) and rent the battery. Makes upfront cost cheaper and batteries need replacing anyway so if you can swap batteries easily you never have to worry about this.
- _hypx 4y ago
  Battery swapping will utterly explode the amount of raw materials needed. It's going to be hydrogen cars simply because it is the genuinely scalable solution. The exact details don't really matter, so long as raw material usage is greatly reduced. You can have cars fully powered by hydrogen, or some kind of PHEV with a fuel cell range extender. Any variation of the idea will work.
tfourb 4y ago
I regularly use an EV for several weeks/months at a time and I also own an ICE car. The EV is in no way less convenient. While it takes longer to charge "on the road," I (and most people) only rarely do road trips of a length that intermittent charging is necessary. When I do, the extra 20 minutes spent at a charger is no big deal, you just plan accordingly. On the flip side, on most days it would be much more hassle to spend 10 minutes or so refueling my ICE car instead of just driving home, connecting my EV and let it charge overnight. Granted, I have a property that allows the installation of a charger. But so do basically all suburban Americans, many people in cities and around the world. People that live so urban that owning their own charging infrastructure is impractical are probably better served with public transport, anyway.
Felminor 4y ago
I charged my ev at my parents house over the weekend. 90kwh on a 1.5k standard outlet. Charging with electricity is 10x easier remote than gas. And makes you independent.
- petre 4y ago
  You have both of these options with BEV+H2, the H2 is just a ranger extender to keep the battery smaller, refueling on the road more convenient and the car's price lower. Renault has already done this for commercial vehicles (Master and Kangoo ZE). Plus I'm sure there will be options with the H2 tank compartment filled by a larger battery for people who prefer the former. https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/kangoo-z-e-hydrogen-and-master-z-e-hydrogen/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/kangoo-z-e-...
  - Felminor 4y ago
    I'm not opposed to this idea after all here are also people driving gas instead of normal fuel. Let's see I still think H2 handling is a little bit more risky
    - petre 4y ago
      > Let's see I still think H2 handling is a little bit more risky You should probably read this: https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is-hydrogen-fuel/ https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is... I used to think it was risky as well, given Hindenburg, Challenger and all. The reality is that it's no more risky than gasoline, it's just different.
      - Felminor 4y ago
        Interesting, tx
- FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
  This was possible because your parents own a house in the suburbs. This is who EVs are for: People who own houses in the suburbs. They don't work in cities. They don't work in rural areas. They don't work for renters. EVs are for people who own houses in the suburbs.

by petre 4y ago

willio58 4y ago

Hydrogen is even harder to find than charging infrastructure. It’s not easy to convert a gas station into a hydrogen station. To me the two solutions revolve around simple battery tech. 1. Charging stations like we have now but 100x as many. 2. Battery swap stations a la Nio in China. In their system you buy the car (for pretty cheap) and rent the battery. Makes upfront cost cheaper and batteries need replacing anyway so if you can swap batteries easily you never have to worry about this.

_hypx 4y ago
Battery swapping will utterly explode the amount of raw materials needed. It's going to be hydrogen cars simply because it is the genuinely scalable solution. The exact details don't really matter, so long as raw material usage is greatly reduced. You can have cars fully powered by hydrogen, or some kind of PHEV with a fuel cell range extender. Any variation of the idea will work.

tfourb 4y ago

I regularly use an EV for several weeks/months at a time and I also own an ICE car. The EV is in no way less convenient. While it takes longer to charge "on the road," I (and most people) only rarely do road trips of a length that intermittent charging is necessary. When I do, the extra 20 minutes spent at a charger is no big deal, you just plan accordingly. On the flip side, on most days it would be much more hassle to spend 10 minutes or so refueling my ICE car instead of just driving home, connecting my EV and let it charge overnight. Granted, I have a property that allows the installation of a charger. But so do basically all suburban Americans, many people in cities and around the world. People that live so urban that owning their own charging infrastructure is impractical are probably better served with public transport, anyway.

Felminor 4y ago

I charged my ev at my parents house over the weekend. 90kwh on a 1.5k standard outlet. Charging with electricity is 10x easier remote than gas. And makes you independent.

petre 4y ago
You have both of these options with BEV+H2, the H2 is just a ranger extender to keep the battery smaller, refueling on the road more convenient and the car's price lower. Renault has already done this for commercial vehicles (Master and Kangoo ZE). Plus I'm sure there will be options with the H2 tank compartment filled by a larger battery for people who prefer the former. https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/kangoo-z-e-hydrogen-and-master-z-e-hydrogen/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/kangoo-z-e-...
- Felminor 4y ago
  I'm not opposed to this idea after all here are also people driving gas instead of normal fuel. Let's see I still think H2 handling is a little bit more risky
  - petre 4y ago
    > Let's see I still think H2 handling is a little bit more risky You should probably read this: https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is-hydrogen-fuel/ https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is... I used to think it was risky as well, given Hindenburg, Challenger and all. The reality is that it's no more risky than gasoline, it's just different.
    - Felminor 4y ago
      Interesting, tx
FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
This was possible because your parents own a house in the suburbs. This is who EVs are for: People who own houses in the suburbs. They don't work in cities. They don't work in rural areas. They don't work for renters. EVs are for people who own houses in the suburbs.