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Just stop it. You’re not going to convince (at least in America) people in the suburbs and rural areas to give up their lifestyle. It’s just not going to happen

Just stop it. You’re not going to convince (at least in America) people in the suburbs and rural areas to give up their lifestyle. It’s just not going to happen. People are not going to ride a scooter 15 miles to and from the grocery store in freezing weather.

georgeplusplus 4y ago
Everyone will have to pile into cities so they can ride a scooter to and from the grocery store in freezing weather. They simply will have to adjust or die.
- ztrww 4y ago
  Just move to a city which has nice weather all year around. Preferably with relatively flat and compact geography. It’s pretty straightforward, I don’t get why everyone is complaining so much…
  - ranguna 4y ago
    Hopefully that was a sarcastic comment.
Fezzik 4y ago
We just have to get better at City Planning in the States. It’s difficult, but not that difficult. Almost all of Western Europe has figured this out (along with health care and education). Dense cities with mixed zoning and good public transit are so much more enjoyable and efficient than the urban hellscapes we create in the USA. I have no delusions we will make any changes, but the changes can be made.
- ztrww 4y ago
  https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Passenger_mobility_statistics#Travel_mode https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Would imply that Europe hadn’t quite figured it out yet. Sure large urban areas have decent mass transit. Many people still live in smaller towns, villages or suburbs and commute by car everyday. Especially in larger more decentralized countries like Germany. in every country included 60-70% commute by car. Which is barely lower than it is in the US. I think it’s a myth that Western Europe is significantly ahead (and I think it applies, albeit to a lesser degree, to other areas like health and education). The grass is always greener on the other side of the ocean…
brnt 4y ago
Don't people in suburbs have winter coats?
mcv 4y ago
You say that as if 15 miles to the grocery store is an unavoidable fact of life. Grocery stores can and should be a lot closer to where people live. My grocery store (in Amsterdam) is a 5 minute walk from my home. The big problem is that everything in the US has been designed around extreme car dependency, and more than that: extreme gas consumption. Because American cars are also much larger and heavier than they reasonably should be. Much about how American life seems to have been explicitly designed to maximise oil use and oil profits, even to the point where it stops making any kind of sense. So if there's a reason this can't change, then it's because oil companies hold far too much power over American politics and over the way people think. See also the recent conspiracy protests against "15 minute cities". The only meaningful reason I can think of why anyone would oppose that, is because it's going to hurt oil profits.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
  [dead]
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
  It's not just an American issue. Quite a few places in the world have similar situations (for various reasons). That problem is rarely a major issue, though; transportation in urban areas can be improved a lot and there's no reason to not implement different solutions for different circumstances, such as urban and rural areas. Fossil fuel-dependency _is not_ a problem we can solve with one single solution that fits everyone. The tricky part is getting someone else to take the first step -- there's going to be a lot of changes if we really want to do this, and most people seems firmly convinced that someone else should take the lead.
  - mcv 4y ago
    There are indeed a lot of countries that have followed the American lead into car dependent urban design. But the issue is by far the worst in the US (and possibly Canada). Although SUVs exist elsewhere, they are far more common in the US. And in no other country do they get as ridiculously big as in the US. But you're absolutely right there's no single silver bullet. The problem is big and complex, and so is the solution. Smaller cars, less cars, electric cars, more bike infrastructure, better public transport, better designed cities. All of those things are part of the solution. Of course most of this is about urban areas; rural areas have very different requirements, and some of these solutions are irrelevant or infeasible there. Cities can do without cars, rural areas probably not, which is part of why electric cars are still important.
euroderf 4y ago
But two or three miles, no biggie. Bundle up and hit the road.
marssaxman 4y ago
> It’s just not going to happen. You say this as though we have any choice. It will happen; we can either do it ourselves, or we can wait until environmental collapse does it for us. (I know which way I'd have preferred to go, but I seem to have been outvoted...)
- jnmandal 4y ago
  Agreed. It's funny that many still cannot see the writing on the wall.

georgeplusplus 4y ago

Everyone will have to pile into cities so they can ride a scooter to and from the grocery store in freezing weather. They simply will have to adjust or die.

ztrww 4y ago
Just move to a city which has nice weather all year around. Preferably with relatively flat and compact geography. It’s pretty straightforward, I don’t get why everyone is complaining so much…
- ranguna 4y ago
  Hopefully that was a sarcastic comment.

Fezzik 4y ago

We just have to get better at City Planning in the States. It’s difficult, but not that difficult. Almost all of Western Europe has figured this out (along with health care and education). Dense cities with mixed zoning and good public transit are so much more enjoyable and efficient than the urban hellscapes we create in the USA. I have no delusions we will make any changes, but the changes can be made.

ztrww 4y ago
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Passenger_mobility_statistics#Travel_mode https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Would imply that Europe hadn’t quite figured it out yet. Sure large urban areas have decent mass transit. Many people still live in smaller towns, villages or suburbs and commute by car everyday. Especially in larger more decentralized countries like Germany. in every country included 60-70% commute by car. Which is barely lower than it is in the US. I think it’s a myth that Western Europe is significantly ahead (and I think it applies, albeit to a lesser degree, to other areas like health and education). The grass is always greener on the other side of the ocean…

brnt 4y ago

Don't people in suburbs have winter coats?

mcv 4y ago

You say that as if 15 miles to the grocery store is an unavoidable fact of life. Grocery stores can and should be a lot closer to where people live. My grocery store (in Amsterdam) is a 5 minute walk from my home. The big problem is that everything in the US has been designed around extreme car dependency, and more than that: extreme gas consumption. Because American cars are also much larger and heavier than they reasonably should be. Much about how American life seems to have been explicitly designed to maximise oil use and oil profits, even to the point where it stops making any kind of sense. So if there's a reason this can't change, then it's because oil companies hold far too much power over American politics and over the way people think. See also the recent conspiracy protests against "15 minute cities". The only meaningful reason I can think of why anyone would oppose that, is because it's going to hurt oil profits.

sieabahlpark 4y ago
[dead]
2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
It's not just an American issue. Quite a few places in the world have similar situations (for various reasons). That problem is rarely a major issue, though; transportation in urban areas can be improved a lot and there's no reason to not implement different solutions for different circumstances, such as urban and rural areas. Fossil fuel-dependency _is not_ a problem we can solve with one single solution that fits everyone. The tricky part is getting someone else to take the first step -- there's going to be a lot of changes if we really want to do this, and most people seems firmly convinced that someone else should take the lead.
- mcv 4y ago
  There are indeed a lot of countries that have followed the American lead into car dependent urban design. But the issue is by far the worst in the US (and possibly Canada). Although SUVs exist elsewhere, they are far more common in the US. And in no other country do they get as ridiculously big as in the US. But you're absolutely right there's no single silver bullet. The problem is big and complex, and so is the solution. Smaller cars, less cars, electric cars, more bike infrastructure, better public transport, better designed cities. All of those things are part of the solution. Of course most of this is about urban areas; rural areas have very different requirements, and some of these solutions are irrelevant or infeasible there. Cities can do without cars, rural areas probably not, which is part of why electric cars are still important.

euroderf 4y ago

But two or three miles, no biggie. Bundle up and hit the road.

marssaxman 4y ago

> It’s just not going to happen. You say this as though we have any choice. It will happen; we can either do it ourselves, or we can wait until environmental collapse does it for us. (I know which way I'd have preferred to go, but I seem to have been outvoted...)

jnmandal 4y ago
Agreed. It's funny that many still cannot see the writing on the wall.