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They are contributing to entertaining end users of the casino. Entertainment is a valid need. You or some academic in an ivory tower can't dictate worth or cont

They are contributing to entertaining end users of the casino. Entertainment is a valid need. You or some academic in an ivory tower can't dictate worth or contribution. It is determined democratically by actions of consumers (literally voting with dollars). That said, there are some jobs we can easily label as zero wroth. E.g., jobs where people dig pits and fill them up (common in job schemes in socialist countries). These are jobs that powerful folks invent to remain in power by bribing poorer folks. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mgnrega-easy-jobs-may-harmed-054826497.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mgnrega-easy-jobs-may-harmed-... A mega job-guarantee program to alleviate massive rural distress may have had an unexpected, deleterious effect: luring India’s skilled labour away from the organised sector. ... Lured by the lesser effort involved—MGNREGA jobs like digging pits and filling them don’t need any skills—they leave their factory jobs to work for 100 days under the program and then take up other contractual jobs for the rest of the year. Or the famous wages for just looking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokku_kooli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokku_kooli Nokku kooli is a euphemism for extortion by organized labour unions in Kerala under which bribes are paid to trade union activists in exchange for allowing unaffiliated workers to unload their own belongings and materials.[1] This happens with the tacit support of political parties including those in government. In Malayalam, 'nokku kooli', translates into 'gawking wages' or 'wages for (just) looking on'.[2]

tsimionescu 4y ago
Bullshit jobs are not specific to state capitalist ("socialist") economies - they are a constant of all capitalist systems, as common in big corporations in the USA as they are in China or they were in the USSR. They do tend to take different shapes, but they are a natural effect of corruption, which tends to affect all large organizations.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  > Bullshit jobs are not specific to state capitalist Yes, but unlike in socialist governments, companies with a lot of bullshit jobs will die due to being inefficient. Thats the point of capitalism. Nobody has to work to support other able bodied humans rent seeking off their labor and capital. But in the US this is not true, as we don't have true capitalism in the US, we have a socialist mix and the govt can sometimes prop up inefficient companies. But in socialism, authoritarians will remain in power for decades even if the majority doesn't like it. Rent seeking is a natural state of affairs in more socialist countries.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    > But in the US this is not true, as we don't have true capitalism in the US, we have a socialist mix and the govt can sometimes prop up inefficient companies. This is the "no true capitalist" fallacy. The reality of capitalism is that big companies get to impose whatever they want on any smaller entity they want. They may either do so directly (e.g. when operating in a weak country, like Chiquita's Banana Republics) or by co-opting government (either in cahoots with an authoritarian government like the USSR or China, or a democratic government like the USA or Europe). And big corporations will always have local fiefdoms with bullshit jobs, since corruption rears its ugly head in any large org - be it Oracle or the US Federal government. > Thats the point of capitalism. Nobody has to work to support other able bodied humans rent seeking off their labor and capital. Before claiming such hilarious idealism, maybe take a look at the capitalist US South and the way it was built by 150 years or more of slave labor.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      > This is the "no true capitalist" fallacy. How is it different from the "no true socialist/communist" fallacy that is more common? > Before claiming such hilarious idealism, maybe take a look at the capitalist US South and the way it was built by 150 years or more of slave labor. A free market requires free participants. Therefore, the US South was not purely capitalist. Also, slavery was not the only component in building the South. Other continents and countries have/had slavery for longer periods and are poorer. The US South was an exploitative mix of socialism + capitalism that was defeated by the more capitalist and freer North. > The reality of capitalism is that big companies get to impose whatever they want on any smaller entity they want. Which exploitative project by a company has the lifespan and reach of CCP or Soviet Russia's decades long exploitation and rent seeking? The difference is Oracle can't force you to buy their database for your small company but you have to pay gawking wages even if you are a poor person. > weak country ... or by co-opting government (either in cahoots with an authoritarian government like the USSR or China, or a democratic government like the USA or Europe). Thank you, thats my point. They can't survive long unless they are supported by an authoritarian govt or by a weak govt. It is obvious now that we are arguing in circles with you supporting my point. So I guess we can end the conversation here.

tsimionescu 4y ago

Bullshit jobs are not specific to state capitalist ("socialist") economies - they are a constant of all capitalist systems, as common in big corporations in the USA as they are in China or they were in the USSR. They do tend to take different shapes, but they are a natural effect of corruption, which tends to affect all large organizations.

cscurmudgeon 4y ago
> Bullshit jobs are not specific to state capitalist Yes, but unlike in socialist governments, companies with a lot of bullshit jobs will die due to being inefficient. Thats the point of capitalism. Nobody has to work to support other able bodied humans rent seeking off their labor and capital. But in the US this is not true, as we don't have true capitalism in the US, we have a socialist mix and the govt can sometimes prop up inefficient companies. But in socialism, authoritarians will remain in power for decades even if the majority doesn't like it. Rent seeking is a natural state of affairs in more socialist countries.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  > But in the US this is not true, as we don't have true capitalism in the US, we have a socialist mix and the govt can sometimes prop up inefficient companies. This is the "no true capitalist" fallacy. The reality of capitalism is that big companies get to impose whatever they want on any smaller entity they want. They may either do so directly (e.g. when operating in a weak country, like Chiquita's Banana Republics) or by co-opting government (either in cahoots with an authoritarian government like the USSR or China, or a democratic government like the USA or Europe). And big corporations will always have local fiefdoms with bullshit jobs, since corruption rears its ugly head in any large org - be it Oracle or the US Federal government. > Thats the point of capitalism. Nobody has to work to support other able bodied humans rent seeking off their labor and capital. Before claiming such hilarious idealism, maybe take a look at the capitalist US South and the way it was built by 150 years or more of slave labor.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    > This is the "no true capitalist" fallacy. How is it different from the "no true socialist/communist" fallacy that is more common? > Before claiming such hilarious idealism, maybe take a look at the capitalist US South and the way it was built by 150 years or more of slave labor. A free market requires free participants. Therefore, the US South was not purely capitalist. Also, slavery was not the only component in building the South. Other continents and countries have/had slavery for longer periods and are poorer. The US South was an exploitative mix of socialism + capitalism that was defeated by the more capitalist and freer North. > The reality of capitalism is that big companies get to impose whatever they want on any smaller entity they want. Which exploitative project by a company has the lifespan and reach of CCP or Soviet Russia's decades long exploitation and rent seeking? The difference is Oracle can't force you to buy their database for your small company but you have to pay gawking wages even if you are a poor person. > weak country ... or by co-opting government (either in cahoots with an authoritarian government like the USSR or China, or a democratic government like the USA or Europe). Thank you, thats my point. They can't survive long unless they are supported by an authoritarian govt or by a weak govt. It is obvious now that we are arguing in circles with you supporting my point. So I guess we can end the conversation here.