3 ms·

Everybody loves socialism until they get back less than they put in.

by refurb 4y ago

pastacacioepepe 4y ago
It's not a zero-sum game. You pay, you receive back all the benefits of a developed society AND the retirement. Otherwise you could keep all your money and live alone in a jungle or desert.
- refurb 4y ago
  That seems like a false dichotomy.
flangola7 4y ago
Not everyone, only the selfish and short-sighted.
gymbeaux 4y ago
To assume I'm one of those types just from that tiny comment... Jeez it's math. Why do I have to pay way more into my retirement than I am going to get back? I don't mind my taxes going towards others' retirement, but why does the beating have to be so brutal and severe? Why can't I pay $200k in and then opt out of SS and start putting that SS tax into my IRA?
- refurb 4y ago
  If you're talking about US social security, your premiums are capped and your payout is directly linked to your contribution. Not sure how you could ever put $1M in of your own money over an entire career. Do the math but ignore inflation (because the cap and payment is indexed to inflation) If you work 30 years at $150,000 per year, you've put in 6.2% per year ($9,300) or a total of $280,000 (your employer put in another $280,000). You can't contribute more than that, since income above ~$150,000 is exempt from the social security tax. Assume a 3% real return, your contribution turns into $500,000 plus the employers $500,000, so $1M. If you get the max payment (because you put in the max contribution), you'll get $3,627 per month or $43,524 per year. If you retire at 65 and die at 95, you would have drawn over $1.3M. That's more than what you put in. I'm not sure where the "rip off" is? I guess it is if you die early, but hey, that's how pensions work.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    It's directly-tied to a certain point. There is a maximum, so it's not really fair to say "hey you make more, you get more back in SS!" You're using 95 when the average lifespan in the US is 77 ($522k given back to you in SS payments). At least with an IRA/401(k) next of kin can get the money if I die at, say, age 66.

Everybody loves socialism until they get back less than they put in.

by refurb 4y ago

Everybody loves socialism until they get back less than they put in.

It's not a zero-sum game. You pay, you receive back all the benefits of a developed society AND the retirement. Otherwise you could keep all your money and live alone in a jungle or desert.

refurb 4y ago
That seems like a false dichotomy.

flangola7 4y ago

Not everyone, only the selfish and short-sighted.

gymbeaux 4y ago

To assume I'm one of those types just from that tiny comment... Jeez it's math. Why do I have to pay way more into my retirement than I am going to get back? I don't mind my taxes going towards others' retirement, but why does the beating have to be so brutal and severe? Why can't I pay $200k in and then opt out of SS and start putting that SS tax into my IRA?

refurb 4y ago
If you're talking about US social security, your premiums are capped and your payout is directly linked to your contribution. Not sure how you could ever put $1M in of your own money over an entire career. Do the math but ignore inflation (because the cap and payment is indexed to inflation) If you work 30 years at $150,000 per year, you've put in 6.2% per year ($9,300) or a total of $280,000 (your employer put in another $280,000). You can't contribute more than that, since income above ~$150,000 is exempt from the social security tax. Assume a 3% real return, your contribution turns into $500,000 plus the employers $500,000, so $1M. If you get the max payment (because you put in the max contribution), you'll get $3,627 per month or $43,524 per year. If you retire at 65 and die at 95, you would have drawn over $1.3M. That's more than what you put in. I'm not sure where the "rip off" is? I guess it is if you die early, but hey, that's how pensions work.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  It's directly-tied to a certain point. There is a maximum, so it's not really fair to say "hey you make more, you get more back in SS!" You're using 95 when the average lifespan in the US is 77 ($522k given back to you in SS payments). At least with an IRA/401(k) next of kin can get the money if I die at, say, age 66.