5 ms·

Yes, also I don't see what a grad student union and an university can do about inequality in the LA community at large. It would be a recipe for failure.

vlovich123 4y ago
If you organize well, then you have a voting block you can influence. Historically, union leaders have been extremely powerful because of this because they made sure to strengthen union ties (hosting social events, disability benefits/aid could come from the labor union instead of your employer, etc). The strengthening of social ties within the union gives you a pulpit from which to influence (e.g. if you know your union leader and you like your union leader and they're making sure you get treated well and taking care of you, you might set aside any personal beliefs / things you hear on the news and vote the way your friend is asking you to). In fact, the largest union leaders were as powerful as being a leader of a religious organization (think Jimmy Hoffa). Think about how much leverage cop unions and the Fraternal Order of Police seem to wield about public policy regarding policing as an example of the ways in which unions can organize to be a bulwark against more popular policies. So what a grad student union can do about inequality in the LA community at large is to organize their members to vote as a single block that politicians will want to court. And if they're too small on their own, they partner with other union leaders who share similar belief to recommend their members vote as one big block on specific issues. That's what community organizing means - organizing a block of votes for a shared purpose.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  > The strengthening of social ties within the union gives you a pulpit from which to influence Hmm. If a pastor uses the church pulpit to convince their flock to vote a specific way, that's okay from your definition. If a well-loved ceo at a company spontaneously meets with the employees in the breakroom, over their free coffee and free lunch, and decides to use that pulpit to convince people to act a certain way politically, that's okay from your definition. There is a saying: "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" [1] which is "used to say that one person or situation should be treated the same way that another person or situation is treated". [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what%27s%20good%20for%20the%20goose%20is%20good%20for%20the%20gander https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what%27s%20good%2...
  - verall 4y ago
    > If a pastor uses the church pulpit to convince their flock to vote a specific way, that's okay from your definition. I don't think they're saying that, just that it does occur. It's actually illegal for churches to convince their flock to vote a certain way specifically[0], since they get such sweeping tax benefits. [0] https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-el...
  - braingenious 4y ago
    > …that's okay from your definition. Can you point to where GP made a value judgment about what is and isn’t “okay” in their post? It kind of seems like you’re arguing against something that nobody said.
    - IncRnd 4y ago
      That comment was specifically to say how a student's union can effect societal changes unrelated to the purpose of the union, by the leaders of the union using their bully pulpit to coerce people to act. That is exactly what they said. They even gave the example of how to effectively use the bully pulpit: the corrupt Jimmy Hoffa, who incidentally was convicted for jury tampering, attempted bribery, conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud.
      - braingenious 4y ago
        Giving an example of how a thing can be observed to work in the world is not the same as saying a thing is inherently morally good or bad. If I were to say “The catholic church has had a lot of influence over architecture decisions”, would your response be “I see that you hate Frank Lloyd Wright”? Does describing how a plane flies mean that I like fighter jets?
        IncRnd 4y ago
        Nobody ever said that the description of a thing implies any morality. Are you actually engaging in honest conversation here? The GP clearly wrote how a student's union can affect the members actions, outside of the union's purpose, through using the bully pulpit. That is literally what they wrote. By the same logic as what they wrote in their comment, the bully pulpit can be used to push different beliefs. I've answered your question about that twice now. Please don't try to engage me in red herring arguments.

vlovich123 4y ago

If you organize well, then you have a voting block you can influence. Historically, union leaders have been extremely powerful because of this because they made sure to strengthen union ties (hosting social events, disability benefits/aid could come from the labor union instead of your employer, etc). The strengthening of social ties within the union gives you a pulpit from which to influence (e.g. if you know your union leader and you like your union leader and they're making sure you get treated well and taking care of you, you might set aside any personal beliefs / things you hear on the news and vote the way your friend is asking you to). In fact, the largest union leaders were as powerful as being a leader of a religious organization (think Jimmy Hoffa). Think about how much leverage cop unions and the Fraternal Order of Police seem to wield about public policy regarding policing as an example of the ways in which unions can organize to be a bulwark against more popular policies. So what a grad student union can do about inequality in the LA community at large is to organize their members to vote as a single block that politicians will want to court. And if they're too small on their own, they partner with other union leaders who share similar belief to recommend their members vote as one big block on specific issues. That's what community organizing means - organizing a block of votes for a shared purpose.

IncRnd 4y ago
> The strengthening of social ties within the union gives you a pulpit from which to influence Hmm. If a pastor uses the church pulpit to convince their flock to vote a specific way, that's okay from your definition. If a well-loved ceo at a company spontaneously meets with the employees in the breakroom, over their free coffee and free lunch, and decides to use that pulpit to convince people to act a certain way politically, that's okay from your definition. There is a saying: "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" [1] which is "used to say that one person or situation should be treated the same way that another person or situation is treated". [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what%27s%20good%20for%20the%20goose%20is%20good%20for%20the%20gander https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what%27s%20good%2...
- verall 4y ago
  > If a pastor uses the church pulpit to convince their flock to vote a specific way, that's okay from your definition. I don't think they're saying that, just that it does occur. It's actually illegal for churches to convince their flock to vote a certain way specifically[0], since they get such sweeping tax benefits. [0] https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-el...
- braingenious 4y ago
  > …that's okay from your definition. Can you point to where GP made a value judgment about what is and isn’t “okay” in their post? It kind of seems like you’re arguing against something that nobody said.
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    That comment was specifically to say how a student's union can effect societal changes unrelated to the purpose of the union, by the leaders of the union using their bully pulpit to coerce people to act. That is exactly what they said. They even gave the example of how to effectively use the bully pulpit: the corrupt Jimmy Hoffa, who incidentally was convicted for jury tampering, attempted bribery, conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      Giving an example of how a thing can be observed to work in the world is not the same as saying a thing is inherently morally good or bad. If I were to say “The catholic church has had a lot of influence over architecture decisions”, would your response be “I see that you hate Frank Lloyd Wright”? Does describing how a plane flies mean that I like fighter jets?
      - IncRnd 4y ago
        Nobody ever said that the description of a thing implies any morality. Are you actually engaging in honest conversation here? The GP clearly wrote how a student's union can affect the members actions, outside of the union's purpose, through using the bully pulpit. That is literally what they wrote. By the same logic as what they wrote in their comment, the bully pulpit can be used to push different beliefs. I've answered your question about that twice now. Please don't try to engage me in red herring arguments.