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I've seen the opposite. Almost everyone I know uses the native facebook app versus going to m.facebook.com. Most people only use a few websites/apps on their ph

I've seen the opposite. Almost everyone I know uses the native facebook app versus going to m.facebook.com. Most people only use a few websites/apps on their phones, and I think it's just simpler to tap on the app icon rather than start up mobile safari and type m.facebook.com.

djb_hackernews 15y ago
The "native" facebook app is just an html5 webapp believe it or not.
- marknutter 15y ago
  Is this true? Do you have a source?
  - furyofantares 15y ago
    It is not true. Facebook uses this: http://three20.info/ http://three20.info/
    - marknutter 15y ago
      I didn't think so. Thanks for clearing that up.
- sukuriant 15y ago
  Be that as it may, the experience of using an app is different from using a website. For one, and remember this is for the normal user, there is less searching involved which means less keyboard time, which means faster. That, and an app seems to have more authority than a website. "This is Facebook, and I know it." sort of thing.
- jng 15y ago
  I don't think so. You don't get that smoothness with HTML5.
- bignoggins 15y ago
  I believe it has both native as well as HTML5 elements, just like the LinkedIn app.
  - dannyr 15y ago
    I believe at least the News Feed is HTML5. I discovered it when I was at Starbucks. My session expired and the NewsFeed displayed the Starbucks login page instead.
- ryanwaggoner 15y ago
  I have no trouble believing it, which is a big part of why it has such terrible ratings and reviews now, as compared to when it was native. And from what I understand, Facebook has done a lot of significant engineering to try and improve the performance while keeping it mostly HTML5. Mobile web apps aren't ready.
  - lazerwalker 15y ago
    The FB app was heavily using webviews long before the most recent redesign. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly it was even mostly web-based back when Joe Hewitt was still working on it, and he left Facebook in 2009.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - checker 15y ago
    It was agonizingly slow on my iPhone 3G for a while until a recent update that makes it palatable.
- barumrho 15y ago
  No, some minor parts are done with webview, but most of it isn't, at least not for the iPhone. There is a huge library called Three20 that was created while the app was developed (as far as I know).
jbail 15y ago
These people have heard of bookmarks, right? You can bookmark a website and put the icon right on your home screen. I visit HN all the time from my phone, but I definitely don't type news.ycombinator.com every time.
- klochner 15y ago
  . . . or just google "HN news"
  - mashmac2 15y ago
    Actually, just 'HN' will get you there with 1st result.
- glhaynes 15y ago
  True, but in practice I don't feel like that happens all that often. Either because people just don't know about it or because they just don't think about it. Web sites feel like, well, web sites; so most people naturally expect to access them through their browser app. (Nothing technical, just the way humans seem to work.)
- ryanwaggoner 15y ago
  No, I doubt most of them have heard of bookmarks, at least not on their phone. I bet if you took a survey right now of iPhone owners, maybe 10% would have any idea what you're talking about. Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised.
  - andrewflnr 15y ago
    I would be very surprised. Assuming they have used bookmarks anywhere else, I wouldn't think it would take long for the tedium of entering URLs on a touch screen to make them think of making a bookmark. The question is whether they can figure out how.
- wazoox 15y ago
  Just a quick reality check: "normal people" don't know anything about bookmarks, and they know almost nothing of URLs. They simply search google every fscking time. And I'm talking of desktop usage here.
DavidChouinard 15y ago
Facebook is an app you use often, so the increase in responsiveness is well worth it. In the case of most startups, native apps are unnecessary. I already see that feeling trend my geek friends ("Ah, not another of those sites that want me to download their app. I just want to see the [movie listings, items for sale, opening hours, etc.]"). Worth noting, also, that Facebook (and Twitter) is mostly just a window with a browser (hence why the mobile sites are very similar).
- jasonkolb 15y ago
  >> In the case of most startups, native apps are unnecessary. I think the point the original post was trying to make was that in deciding between Web and native app, only native apps will be necessary. In other words, why spend the time developing a Web app when everyone will use it on a mobile anyway. (I just want to point out that there's a large part of my soul that is just torn over agreeing with this post, because I would much prefer an open Web to proprietary apps. And I built Web apps for years. However, denial does not become an entrepreneur.)

djb_hackernews 15y ago

The "native" facebook app is just an html5 webapp believe it or not.

marknutter 15y ago
Is this true? Do you have a source?
- furyofantares 15y ago
  It is not true. Facebook uses this: http://three20.info/ http://three20.info/
  - marknutter 15y ago
    I didn't think so. Thanks for clearing that up.
sukuriant 15y ago
Be that as it may, the experience of using an app is different from using a website. For one, and remember this is for the normal user, there is less searching involved which means less keyboard time, which means faster. That, and an app seems to have more authority than a website. "This is Facebook, and I know it." sort of thing.
jng 15y ago
I don't think so. You don't get that smoothness with HTML5.
bignoggins 15y ago
I believe it has both native as well as HTML5 elements, just like the LinkedIn app.
- dannyr 15y ago
  I believe at least the News Feed is HTML5. I discovered it when I was at Starbucks. My session expired and the NewsFeed displayed the Starbucks login page instead.
ryanwaggoner 15y ago
I have no trouble believing it, which is a big part of why it has such terrible ratings and reviews now, as compared to when it was native. And from what I understand, Facebook has done a lot of significant engineering to try and improve the performance while keeping it mostly HTML5. Mobile web apps aren't ready.
- lazerwalker 15y ago
  The FB app was heavily using webviews long before the most recent redesign. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly it was even mostly web-based back when Joe Hewitt was still working on it, and he left Facebook in 2009.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- checker 15y ago
  It was agonizingly slow on my iPhone 3G for a while until a recent update that makes it palatable.
barumrho 15y ago
No, some minor parts are done with webview, but most of it isn't, at least not for the iPhone. There is a huge library called Three20 that was created while the app was developed (as far as I know).

jbail 15y ago

These people have heard of bookmarks, right? You can bookmark a website and put the icon right on your home screen. I visit HN all the time from my phone, but I definitely don't type news.ycombinator.com every time.

klochner 15y ago
. . . or just google "HN news"
- mashmac2 15y ago
  Actually, just 'HN' will get you there with 1st result.
glhaynes 15y ago
True, but in practice I don't feel like that happens all that often. Either because people just don't know about it or because they just don't think about it. Web sites feel like, well, web sites; so most people naturally expect to access them through their browser app. (Nothing technical, just the way humans seem to work.)
ryanwaggoner 15y ago
No, I doubt most of them have heard of bookmarks, at least not on their phone. I bet if you took a survey right now of iPhone owners, maybe 10% would have any idea what you're talking about. Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised.
- andrewflnr 15y ago
  I would be very surprised. Assuming they have used bookmarks anywhere else, I wouldn't think it would take long for the tedium of entering URLs on a touch screen to make them think of making a bookmark. The question is whether they can figure out how.
wazoox 15y ago
Just a quick reality check: "normal people" don't know anything about bookmarks, and they know almost nothing of URLs. They simply search google every fscking time. And I'm talking of desktop usage here.

DavidChouinard 15y ago

Facebook is an app you use often, so the increase in responsiveness is well worth it. In the case of most startups, native apps are unnecessary. I already see that feeling trend my geek friends ("Ah, not another of those sites that want me to download their app. I just want to see the [movie listings, items for sale, opening hours, etc.]"). Worth noting, also, that Facebook (and Twitter) is mostly just a window with a browser (hence why the mobile sites are very similar).

jasonkolb 15y ago
>> In the case of most startups, native apps are unnecessary. I think the point the original post was trying to make was that in deciding between Web and native app, only native apps will be necessary. In other words, why spend the time developing a Web app when everyone will use it on a mobile anyway. (I just want to point out that there's a large part of my soul that is just torn over agreeing with this post, because I would much prefer an open Web to proprietary apps. And I built Web apps for years. However, denial does not become an entrepreneur.)