4 ms·

Sure, leaver's favorite excuse "Things got worse, but it's not because of Brexit". What positive things do you think came out of Brexit?

skippyboxedhero 4y ago
The "name positive things" argument is so abysmally weak. It almost always comes from people who didn't care about economics until Brexit, and now won't shut up about it...whilst being completely unaware of the lack of substance of their argument...they just read something on the BBC website written by a 21-year old politics grad (btw, this is the real issue with the UK, the Cabinet is one of the only places in British society where you actually have people who are up to the job...and I am not a Tory or Leave voter). The positive things are the things you see happening: financial deregulation, enterprise zones/freeports, greater political agency over economic decisions (this sounds soft, but the difference in spirit is huge...dirigiste corporatism is popular with the civil servant elite as in Brussels...voters here just don't like it), reorienting trade towards growing economies, can choose not to move closer to China/Russia, the list goes on and on. I will say this another way: if the UK didn't leave, would GDP have been higher? No. It wouldn't have been lower either. Brexit offers more opportunities in the future, it is up to govt to take them but by itself it has very little economic significance.
- landoftheice 4y ago
  [dead]
- Idiot_in_Vain 4y ago
  So financial deregulation is a positive development? Remember that next time the state has to take 50 or 100 billion dollar loan to save a greedy bank, that's too big to fail. No big deal, it will just cost a few percent higher taxes for a few decades.
  - skippyboxedhero 4y ago
    Financial deregulation did not cause the financial crisis in the UK. It was: corporate lending (which the FSA had full power over) and one bank doing a mega-merger (which the FSA had full power over). Insufficient regulation is the eternal excuse...it is like saying that your business failed because you can't beat your staff to force them to work more hours. No-one wants to talk about the fact that most regulators are idiots, and will fuck it up (which they have done post-GFC, we have given massive powers to the BoE and they have done nothing else but cause financial problems...but the media just wants to talk about "the bankers, the bonuses"). Either way, you are seeing the UK move very swiftly towards the heavy corporatist banking system in Europe which requires bailouts and subsidies every few years (you are complaining about the GFC, Europe has been doing GFC-size interventions to save their banking system every few years SINCE the GFC). Financial deregulation is the only way to stop this. It will be huge for growth because the UK's financial markets are ossifying heavily under current regs.
- 123pie123 4y ago
  I think the only thing that is extremely absmally weak is your list of benefits? > financial deregulation, enterprise zones/freeports, greater political agency over economic decisions we cannot do deviate much from the norms any way, otherwise we'll lose access to the free market and where are all these new trade deals that are better than the EU's? Lets face it, the EU has been a massive misdirection for the tories and the propaganda papers to hide their huge failings let not talk about the massive f*k up of NI issue or the fact Scotland will try and get independance if given the chance, the massasive screw up to our miltary by coming out of Galilieo
  - skippyboxedhero 4y ago
    No, we won't. This is a common misconception amongst people who stopped reading about Brexit after it happened...the deal we got largely preserves access to the Single Market and will allow regulatory divergence. I didn't mention trade deals. Exports outside the EU are up significantly, exports to the EU are above pre-Brexit levels but have continued to stagnate due to weak growth in the EU. The massive misdirection argument is just...bizarre. I have no idea why people believe this...you see this literally every time the govt does anything good amongst people who seem to be terminally online. NI issues have been solved due to the EU deciding that attempting to break up another country to reverse a democratic decision wasn't a great look. Independence in Scotland has never had a majority and still isn't particularly close to it. Military? Most EU countries do not spend the required amount by NATO (btw, this Galileo thing is some kind of bot online comment that I have seen elsewhere...Remainers are genuinely the biggest bot thinkers, "this is just a distraction", "Galileo", "where are the trade deals"...you are arguing with ghosts in your head).
    - 123pie123 4y ago
      !!! are you making all this up? ChatGPT bot?? every item you mentioned is wrong >No, we won't. This is a common misconception amongst people who stopped reading about Brexit after it happened...the deal we got largely preserves access to the Single Market and will allow regulatory divergence. Have a read of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU%E2%80%93UK_Trade_and_Cooperation_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU%E2%80%93UK_Trade_and_Cooper... - mainlt the part..... " For its part, the EU insisted that the price for UK access to the European Single Market was compliance with EU subsidies, social, environmental and other regulations to avoid distorting competition in the single market." so you're completely wrong there >I didn't mention trade deals. Exports outside the EU are up significantly, exports to the EU are above pre-Brexit levels but have continued to stagnate due to weak growth in the EU. Uk is almost in recession, where the rest of the EU is doing relatively very well >The massive misdirection argument is just...bizarre It will be you, if you've no idea why cameron presented the non binding referendum in the first place >NI issues have been solved due to the EU deciding that attempting to break up another country to reverse a democratic decision wasn't a great look. really? I'm not even going to answer that drivel - almost straight from daily express
bmacho 4y ago
> What positive things do you think came out of Brexit? They said it: they "objected to the EU on political and economic grounds" and now they are out of the EU. > Sure, leaver's favorite excuse "Things got worse, but it's not because of Brexit". That's not true, they said that they expected a short term economical decline: "and I figured we could recover, in about a decade, economically.". I wonder if chatGPT could remind you if you flood your favourite phrases on a comment that they don't hold.
- Idiot_in_Vain 4y ago
  I wonder if ChatGPT is actually smarter than most leave voters...
lmm 4y ago
Less public money being spent on empty unused buildings in deprived regions. Less entrenched copyright laws, and an end to endless copyright extensions. Bankers no longer getting paid minimum salaries of at least 1/3 their bonus. Scottish rail nationalisation. No doubt the areas of politics you take an interest in are different from the ones I do, but in almost every area I saw policies that no-one wanted being forced through with the excuse that it was an EU requirement, and putting an end to that is enough to justify Brexit. Trust and accountability in the political system is priceless.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

skippyboxedhero 4y ago

The "name positive things" argument is so abysmally weak. It almost always comes from people who didn't care about economics until Brexit, and now won't shut up about it...whilst being completely unaware of the lack of substance of their argument...they just read something on the BBC website written by a 21-year old politics grad (btw, this is the real issue with the UK, the Cabinet is one of the only places in British society where you actually have people who are up to the job...and I am not a Tory or Leave voter). The positive things are the things you see happening: financial deregulation, enterprise zones/freeports, greater political agency over economic decisions (this sounds soft, but the difference in spirit is huge...dirigiste corporatism is popular with the civil servant elite as in Brussels...voters here just don't like it), reorienting trade towards growing economies, can choose not to move closer to China/Russia, the list goes on and on. I will say this another way: if the UK didn't leave, would GDP have been higher? No. It wouldn't have been lower either. Brexit offers more opportunities in the future, it is up to govt to take them but by itself it has very little economic significance.

landoftheice 4y ago
[dead]
Idiot_in_Vain 4y ago
So financial deregulation is a positive development? Remember that next time the state has to take 50 or 100 billion dollar loan to save a greedy bank, that's too big to fail. No big deal, it will just cost a few percent higher taxes for a few decades.
- skippyboxedhero 4y ago
  Financial deregulation did not cause the financial crisis in the UK. It was: corporate lending (which the FSA had full power over) and one bank doing a mega-merger (which the FSA had full power over). Insufficient regulation is the eternal excuse...it is like saying that your business failed because you can't beat your staff to force them to work more hours. No-one wants to talk about the fact that most regulators are idiots, and will fuck it up (which they have done post-GFC, we have given massive powers to the BoE and they have done nothing else but cause financial problems...but the media just wants to talk about "the bankers, the bonuses"). Either way, you are seeing the UK move very swiftly towards the heavy corporatist banking system in Europe which requires bailouts and subsidies every few years (you are complaining about the GFC, Europe has been doing GFC-size interventions to save their banking system every few years SINCE the GFC). Financial deregulation is the only way to stop this. It will be huge for growth because the UK's financial markets are ossifying heavily under current regs.
123pie123 4y ago
I think the only thing that is extremely absmally weak is your list of benefits? > financial deregulation, enterprise zones/freeports, greater political agency over economic decisions we cannot do deviate much from the norms any way, otherwise we'll lose access to the free market and where are all these new trade deals that are better than the EU's? Lets face it, the EU has been a massive misdirection for the tories and the propaganda papers to hide their huge failings let not talk about the massive f*k up of NI issue or the fact Scotland will try and get independance if given the chance, the massasive screw up to our miltary by coming out of Galilieo
- skippyboxedhero 4y ago
  No, we won't. This is a common misconception amongst people who stopped reading about Brexit after it happened...the deal we got largely preserves access to the Single Market and will allow regulatory divergence. I didn't mention trade deals. Exports outside the EU are up significantly, exports to the EU are above pre-Brexit levels but have continued to stagnate due to weak growth in the EU. The massive misdirection argument is just...bizarre. I have no idea why people believe this...you see this literally every time the govt does anything good amongst people who seem to be terminally online. NI issues have been solved due to the EU deciding that attempting to break up another country to reverse a democratic decision wasn't a great look. Independence in Scotland has never had a majority and still isn't particularly close to it. Military? Most EU countries do not spend the required amount by NATO (btw, this Galileo thing is some kind of bot online comment that I have seen elsewhere...Remainers are genuinely the biggest bot thinkers, "this is just a distraction", "Galileo", "where are the trade deals"...you are arguing with ghosts in your head).
  - 123pie123 4y ago
    !!! are you making all this up? ChatGPT bot?? every item you mentioned is wrong >No, we won't. This is a common misconception amongst people who stopped reading about Brexit after it happened...the deal we got largely preserves access to the Single Market and will allow regulatory divergence. Have a read of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU%E2%80%93UK_Trade_and_Cooperation_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU%E2%80%93UK_Trade_and_Cooper... - mainlt the part..... " For its part, the EU insisted that the price for UK access to the European Single Market was compliance with EU subsidies, social, environmental and other regulations to avoid distorting competition in the single market." so you're completely wrong there >I didn't mention trade deals. Exports outside the EU are up significantly, exports to the EU are above pre-Brexit levels but have continued to stagnate due to weak growth in the EU. Uk is almost in recession, where the rest of the EU is doing relatively very well >The massive misdirection argument is just...bizarre It will be you, if you've no idea why cameron presented the non binding referendum in the first place >NI issues have been solved due to the EU deciding that attempting to break up another country to reverse a democratic decision wasn't a great look. really? I'm not even going to answer that drivel - almost straight from daily express

bmacho 4y ago

> What positive things do you think came out of Brexit? They said it: they "objected to the EU on political and economic grounds" and now they are out of the EU. > Sure, leaver's favorite excuse "Things got worse, but it's not because of Brexit". That's not true, they said that they expected a short term economical decline: "and I figured we could recover, in about a decade, economically.". I wonder if chatGPT could remind you if you flood your favourite phrases on a comment that they don't hold.

Idiot_in_Vain 4y ago
I wonder if ChatGPT is actually smarter than most leave voters...

lmm 4y ago

Less public money being spent on empty unused buildings in deprived regions. Less entrenched copyright laws, and an end to endless copyright extensions. Bankers no longer getting paid minimum salaries of at least 1/3 their bonus. Scottish rail nationalisation. No doubt the areas of politics you take an interest in are different from the ones I do, but in almost every area I saw policies that no-one wanted being forced through with the excuse that it was an EU requirement, and putting an end to that is enough to justify Brexit. Trust and accountability in the political system is priceless.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]