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Does not having to run your laws past an outside, unaccountable authority not count as a win of any kind? Yah there are economic costs to brexit but surely sel

Does not having to run your laws past an outside, unaccountable authority not count as a win of any kind? Yah there are economic costs to brexit but surely self-determination has some value right?

123pie123 4y ago
yes and we get to pick other temporary dictators who want to give knighthoods to their dads!! amongst other abuses of their powers
mrtksn 4y ago
Not at all because it’s a fallacy. EU is not some 3rd party, it’s made up of its members and having your laws aligned to EU laws mean your laws are aligned to the laws laws created by you. EU is not some Belgian club you subscribe to, Brussels is just a location for meeting with your partners. People who make the EU laws were British, among others. EU is useful when you want to have interoperability and resolve conflicts before they happen. So essentially, if you like to have flying cars that can travel across all the Europe, your people posted in Brussels come to agreement with the others on the flux capacitor fuel types and pass an EU law. Then your people at home pass a domestic law that follows the EU law and you end up with standardized flux capacitor fuels. As a result being in EU gives you the say on what suits you so the EU law be designed that way. When out of the EU, EU does it’s own thing and if you like to sell flying cars to EU, you need to comply to their flux capacitor requirements anyway(AKA Brussels effect). That’s why Brexit made trade with EU so bureaucratic.
- lmm 4y ago
  That's how it was presented to the British public though. "Oh, the EU wants us to do this, our hands are tied, we can't do anything". No system with a smidgeon of accountability to the British public would ever have kept disgraced former disgraced former MP Peter Mandelson in a position of power.
  - ttepasse 4y ago
    Mandelson was nominated by the Government of the United Kingdom to be EU Commissioner, as part of the first Barroso Commission. Presumably the nominating HM Government is not accountable to the British Public.
    - lmm 4y ago
      If you put enough layers of indirection in then the accountability that theoretically exists becomes so weak as to be meaningless.
richrichardsson 4y ago
Can you say exactly why the EU is unnaccountable? Genuinely curious, because my understanding is that MEPs have the final say and EU citizens get to vote for them; the fact that they tended not to engage in that in the UK pre-Brexit wasn't the fault of the EU. If that's not a mistaken understanding then by the same logic national governments are equally unaccountable, no?
- Ekaros 4y ago
  And the commission which is often called undemocratic. Is essentially comparable to ministers. Selected by the governing governments. Not by voters. I don't get to vote who is which minister. They are pretty much unelected in same way...

Does not having to run your laws past an outside, unaccountable authority not count as a win of any kind? Yah there are economic costs to brexit but surely self-determination has some value right?

123pie123 4y ago

yes and we get to pick other temporary dictators who want to give knighthoods to their dads!! amongst other abuses of their powers

mrtksn 4y ago

Not at all because it’s a fallacy. EU is not some 3rd party, it’s made up of its members and having your laws aligned to EU laws mean your laws are aligned to the laws laws created by you. EU is not some Belgian club you subscribe to, Brussels is just a location for meeting with your partners. People who make the EU laws were British, among others. EU is useful when you want to have interoperability and resolve conflicts before they happen. So essentially, if you like to have flying cars that can travel across all the Europe, your people posted in Brussels come to agreement with the others on the flux capacitor fuel types and pass an EU law. Then your people at home pass a domestic law that follows the EU law and you end up with standardized flux capacitor fuels. As a result being in EU gives you the say on what suits you so the EU law be designed that way. When out of the EU, EU does it’s own thing and if you like to sell flying cars to EU, you need to comply to their flux capacitor requirements anyway(AKA Brussels effect). That’s why Brexit made trade with EU so bureaucratic.

lmm 4y ago
That's how it was presented to the British public though. "Oh, the EU wants us to do this, our hands are tied, we can't do anything". No system with a smidgeon of accountability to the British public would ever have kept disgraced former disgraced former MP Peter Mandelson in a position of power.
- ttepasse 4y ago
  Mandelson was nominated by the Government of the United Kingdom to be EU Commissioner, as part of the first Barroso Commission. Presumably the nominating HM Government is not accountable to the British Public.
  - lmm 4y ago
    If you put enough layers of indirection in then the accountability that theoretically exists becomes so weak as to be meaningless.

richrichardsson 4y ago

Can you say exactly why the EU is unnaccountable? Genuinely curious, because my understanding is that MEPs have the final say and EU citizens get to vote for them; the fact that they tended not to engage in that in the UK pre-Brexit wasn't the fault of the EU. If that's not a mistaken understanding then by the same logic national governments are equally unaccountable, no?

Ekaros 4y ago
And the commission which is often called undemocratic. Is essentially comparable to ministers. Selected by the governing governments. Not by voters. I don't get to vote who is which minister. They are pretty much unelected in same way...