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But everyone jumping to EV would increase pressure to upgrade infrastructure, which is probably a good thing.

fwungy 4y ago
Only if the majority populations of the world in developing countries follow along. The major oil producing nations are not going to stop selling oil though, they depend on it to survive, and likewise developing nations depend on petroleum products to feed themselves and operate their businesses. They can't afford to transition in any timespan that matters for a critical climate change scenario. What we're on course to do in the West is destroy our economies for no reason as carbon usage will just move elsewhere. In the process we will lose our ability to lead to cleaner technologies by destroying our financial base.
- breakyerself 4y ago
  Lmao our economy will not be destroyed. It won't even be hampered. This is nonsense.
  - fwungy 4y ago
    Have you noticed how much things cost lately? Have you noticed the decline in the stock market? The US made a hard turn towards green energy the day Biden got into office. He shut down the Keystone Pipeline on day 1, and has been running an aggressively anti-oil energy policy, which the EU is following as well. This has caused inflation to spread across the supply chain as input costs have drastically increased. Oil products are vital for food production too, so it's affecting that as well. This isn't just an update to a basically disposable cell phone, these policy changes have huge impacts, such that we can't even fully know ahead of time the unintended consequences.
- mcv 4y ago
  Why would it destroy our economy if carbon use moves elsewhere? Carbon use is not a goal, it's merely the means by which we currently generate most of our energy. If we replace the means by which we generate our energy, we don't need carbon anymore. The fact that others haven't made that transition yet doesn't hurt us. Quite the contrary: the fact that we made that transition will make it easier for them to make the same transition. And the US definitely needs to be first. The US uses far more carbon per person than any other country; even more than Europe. Developing countries are not remotely in the same order of magnitude. Having the US and EU transition to cleaner energy will be a massive boon to the world, even if nobody else follows suit. But the US and EU figuring out all the issues of this transition will make it easier for other countries to make that transition too, and it will put more pressure on them to do so. The US is really not the country that should wait for others to go first here. Take the lead.
  - fwungy 4y ago
    Because it makes everything cost a lot more money. Your industry is not competitive and it declines. Other countries move ahead and exploit your weakness for their advantage. No one is saying green technologies are bad, they aren't. The question is the scope. If we ask them to do something they're not technologically and economically ready to do they're going to fail.
    - mcv 4y ago
      That's doom thinking that's just going to lead to doubt and inaction. Green technologies can absolutely become competitive, and in many cases already are. On top of that, there's a lot more to industrial competition than just where your energy comes from. There are a lot of countries with very cheap energy that are not dominating the world in industry. And there are countries with expensive energy that are.

Only if the majority populations of the world in developing countries follow along. The major oil producing nations are not going to stop selling oil though, they depend on it to survive, and likewise developing nations depend on petroleum products to feed themselves and operate their businesses. They can't afford to transition in any timespan that matters for a critical climate change scenario. What we're on course to do in the West is destroy our economies for no reason as carbon usage will just move elsewhere. In the process we will lose our ability to lead to cleaner technologies by destroying our financial base.

breakyerself 4y ago
Lmao our economy will not be destroyed. It won't even be hampered. This is nonsense.
- fwungy 4y ago
  Have you noticed how much things cost lately? Have you noticed the decline in the stock market? The US made a hard turn towards green energy the day Biden got into office. He shut down the Keystone Pipeline on day 1, and has been running an aggressively anti-oil energy policy, which the EU is following as well. This has caused inflation to spread across the supply chain as input costs have drastically increased. Oil products are vital for food production too, so it's affecting that as well. This isn't just an update to a basically disposable cell phone, these policy changes have huge impacts, such that we can't even fully know ahead of time the unintended consequences.
mcv 4y ago
Why would it destroy our economy if carbon use moves elsewhere? Carbon use is not a goal, it's merely the means by which we currently generate most of our energy. If we replace the means by which we generate our energy, we don't need carbon anymore. The fact that others haven't made that transition yet doesn't hurt us. Quite the contrary: the fact that we made that transition will make it easier for them to make the same transition. And the US definitely needs to be first. The US uses far more carbon per person than any other country; even more than Europe. Developing countries are not remotely in the same order of magnitude. Having the US and EU transition to cleaner energy will be a massive boon to the world, even if nobody else follows suit. But the US and EU figuring out all the issues of this transition will make it easier for other countries to make that transition too, and it will put more pressure on them to do so. The US is really not the country that should wait for others to go first here. Take the lead.
- fwungy 4y ago
  Because it makes everything cost a lot more money. Your industry is not competitive and it declines. Other countries move ahead and exploit your weakness for their advantage. No one is saying green technologies are bad, they aren't. The question is the scope. If we ask them to do something they're not technologically and economically ready to do they're going to fail.
  - mcv 4y ago
    That's doom thinking that's just going to lead to doubt and inaction. Green technologies can absolutely become competitive, and in many cases already are. On top of that, there's a lot more to industrial competition than just where your energy comes from. There are a lot of countries with very cheap energy that are not dominating the world in industry. And there are countries with expensive energy that are.