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True, dictators are the norm for human rule. Every book and movie out there has already pinned down the future as being one of a single, corrupt, world-wide gov

True, dictators are the norm for human rule. Every book and movie out there has already pinned down the future as being one of a single, corrupt, world-wide government run by a psycho. Every now and then some group of people end up making a democracy, but most don't put as many power-checks up as the US did when it was created (3 different branches) so must only last about one generation. America's time is coming to an end. Crowds just aren't able to combat propaganda and other tactics from focused groups.

seydor 4y ago
Dictators are authoritarians. I dont think we re heading there, the western world is still on the same Liberalism program that started with the enlightenment. However it is also clear that the most liberal places reap the biggest rewards because creative people tend to flock there (US). Maybe democracy has ran its course and we need to invent something better to continue on this centuries-long program
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  Lol!! France literally shut itself down today because of a general strike in response to raising the eligibility age for a state pension from 62 to 64, and somehow the US is one of “the most liberal places” in the world. Damn, I think you made my day https://apnews.com/article/france-retirement-age-strike-protest-macron-47c7b036a6478fdaf17c7d656002e858 https://apnews.com/article/france-retirement-age-strike-prot...
- theloco 4y ago
  Yeah modern democracies are worthless. Take the Republican form of Government outlined in the constitution and make it where you have to be a stakeholder to vote. That means you're voting because you have an interest, not because you have a heartbeat.
  - verall 4y ago
    By "stakeholder" do you mean "landowner"? It's hard to tell.
    - theloco 4y ago
      landowner. its been done before and should be done again. im done commenting though because i dont wanna read their commenting guidelines and the admins already started whining at me. buhbye, dont worry, nobody will ever care about actually fixing democracy, so this landowner thing wont go anywhere.
      - verall 4y ago
        I get that you're leaving because the "admins are whining at you" but before you go I just want to say that I think your idea that only landowners should vote is unhinged and not democracy at all, but rather feudalism. Good luck.
        theloco 4y ago
        speaking of unhinged, that isnt feudalism and isn't even close. its being qualified to vote. but like i said, nobody will make any serious effort to fix democracy, so i wouldn't worry about suddenly becoming a medieval peasant subject to the local lord.
        flangola7 4y ago
        Being a citizen is the qualifier to vote. Democracy means everyone votes - taking the right to vote away is the opposite of fixing democracy.
TeMPOraL 4y ago
> Every book and movie out there has already pinned down the future as being one of a single, corrupt, world-wide government run by a psycho. I'd take that as a mix of internalized propaganda (democracy is Da Best, therefore the dystopia must be the opposite - a psycho dictator at the top), mass-market appeal (most people seem to like basic character stories best, therefore let's' do a character-focused good vs evil story) and tendency to follow established tropes. And if you feel that fiction "has already pinned down the future", I feel like I should warn about generalizing from fictional evidence, but I guess at this volume it's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy now. Everyone dreading but also expecting a dystopia is a sure way to walk straight into one. > America's time is coming to an end. Crowds just aren't able to combat propaganda and other tactics from focused groups. Could this be a maintenance issue? Most citizens - in the US or elsewhere - are just users of democracy, understanding it even worse than they understand phones and computers. It's not an easy system to grok - it's unstable on its own, and requires feedback control to function long-term. Most people never learn a good mental framework to understand such concepts - so perhaps putting more effort into teaching people not just history and political sciences, but actual control theory (or some handwavy simplification) would enable more people to both appreciate the system and help resist its subversion? I'd like to think it would, but then the last few years have dispelled the illusion I had, that broad knowledge, proficiency with complex mental models, and good epistemic hygiene, are qualities that make people less likely to spew obvious bullshit in favor of their preferred political ideology. I suppose you can't easily teach people to treat intellectual honesty as a virtue.
- Xeoncross 4y ago
  I tend to think that fear and greed are the main issues. People afraid of things give up their liberties easily and people greedy for things are willing to do stuff they wouldn't otherwise to get ahead (take bribes, destroy the environment, endorse bad laws, etc..) It only takes a few hundred/thousand people in key places in a government to lower their standards or get scared about something and they can easily drag/persuade the entire country to come with them.

seydor 4y ago

Dictators are authoritarians. I dont think we re heading there, the western world is still on the same Liberalism program that started with the enlightenment. However it is also clear that the most liberal places reap the biggest rewards because creative people tend to flock there (US). Maybe democracy has ran its course and we need to invent something better to continue on this centuries-long program

actually_a_dog 4y ago
Lol!! France literally shut itself down today because of a general strike in response to raising the eligibility age for a state pension from 62 to 64, and somehow the US is one of “the most liberal places” in the world. Damn, I think you made my day https://apnews.com/article/france-retirement-age-strike-protest-macron-47c7b036a6478fdaf17c7d656002e858 https://apnews.com/article/france-retirement-age-strike-prot...
theloco 4y ago
Yeah modern democracies are worthless. Take the Republican form of Government outlined in the constitution and make it where you have to be a stakeholder to vote. That means you're voting because you have an interest, not because you have a heartbeat.
- verall 4y ago
  By "stakeholder" do you mean "landowner"? It's hard to tell.
  - theloco 4y ago
    landowner. its been done before and should be done again. im done commenting though because i dont wanna read their commenting guidelines and the admins already started whining at me. buhbye, dont worry, nobody will ever care about actually fixing democracy, so this landowner thing wont go anywhere.
    - verall 4y ago
      I get that you're leaving because the "admins are whining at you" but before you go I just want to say that I think your idea that only landowners should vote is unhinged and not democracy at all, but rather feudalism. Good luck.
      - theloco 4y ago
        speaking of unhinged, that isnt feudalism and isn't even close. its being qualified to vote. but like i said, nobody will make any serious effort to fix democracy, so i wouldn't worry about suddenly becoming a medieval peasant subject to the local lord.
        flangola7 4y ago
        Being a citizen is the qualifier to vote. Democracy means everyone votes - taking the right to vote away is the opposite of fixing democracy.

TeMPOraL 4y ago

> Every book and movie out there has already pinned down the future as being one of a single, corrupt, world-wide government run by a psycho. I'd take that as a mix of internalized propaganda (democracy is Da Best, therefore the dystopia must be the opposite - a psycho dictator at the top), mass-market appeal (most people seem to like basic character stories best, therefore let's' do a character-focused good vs evil story) and tendency to follow established tropes. And if you feel that fiction "has already pinned down the future", I feel like I should warn about generalizing from fictional evidence, but I guess at this volume it's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy now. Everyone dreading but also expecting a dystopia is a sure way to walk straight into one. > America's time is coming to an end. Crowds just aren't able to combat propaganda and other tactics from focused groups. Could this be a maintenance issue? Most citizens - in the US or elsewhere - are just users of democracy, understanding it even worse than they understand phones and computers. It's not an easy system to grok - it's unstable on its own, and requires feedback control to function long-term. Most people never learn a good mental framework to understand such concepts - so perhaps putting more effort into teaching people not just history and political sciences, but actual control theory (or some handwavy simplification) would enable more people to both appreciate the system and help resist its subversion? I'd like to think it would, but then the last few years have dispelled the illusion I had, that broad knowledge, proficiency with complex mental models, and good epistemic hygiene, are qualities that make people less likely to spew obvious bullshit in favor of their preferred political ideology. I suppose you can't easily teach people to treat intellectual honesty as a virtue.

Xeoncross 4y ago
I tend to think that fear and greed are the main issues. People afraid of things give up their liberties easily and people greedy for things are willing to do stuff they wouldn't otherwise to get ahead (take bribes, destroy the environment, endorse bad laws, etc..) It only takes a few hundred/thousand people in key places in a government to lower their standards or get scared about something and they can easily drag/persuade the entire country to come with them.