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This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, o

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to and slowly rejecting when they wake up to the subtle forms of manipulation that goes on.

deleted 4y ago
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omegaworks 4y ago
>promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. If the government can not get something basic like covering subsistence-level costs for its population over 62 working without bankrupting the country, the government is broken, the economic system is broken and shutting it down is an appropriate response. Technology and efficiency has caused labor productivity to increase [1] and that increase has not been captured in wages. It has been instead captured by private capital as profit. 1. https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/piketty/2017/01/09/of-productivity-in-france-and-in-germany/ https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/piketty/2017/01/09/of-productivi...
- LeftHandPath 4y ago
  Fascinating article. Loved this quote in particular: > The truth is that this trade surplus is not really a choice: it is the outcome of decentralised decisions made by millions of economic actors and in the absence of an adequate mechanism for correction. To put it simply: there is no pilot in the plane, or at least the pilots available are not very accurate.
- dh2022 4y ago
  The reason for discrepancy between productivity growth and wages stagnant is because the productivity initiatives were created by a few people that benefited handsomely, not by the masses employed in call centers / coffee shops / warehouses. I think one probable reason for this change was technology - technology made spreading knowledge and controlling processes among thousands of entities a lot cheaper. Who are these few people? Most likely you will find them in corporate centers. These people constantly fine tune processes, haggle with suppliers, diversify their suppliers, create new machines, lobby for legislation to make off-shoring easier, etc... I had the opportunity to work 4 years in Amazon as Financial Analyst. None of the cost savings initiatives came from call centers / distribution centers. Even more to the point, as part of ACES program, bright motivated individuals in call centers / distribution centers would be picked up and brought to HQ so their initiatives can be applied to the entire company. When I worked as Financial Analyst with Starbucks there was only one cost saving initiative that came from a store manager - that store manager figured out how to use less milk for the lattes. All the other cost saving initiatives came from HQ.
- moremetadata 4y ago
  No mention of Lichtenstein when it mentions The Emirates, Norway or Luxemburg. > In contrast, the persistent backwardness in British productivity, which never reached the American level, is usually attributed to the historical weaknesses in the educational system. The British state getting rid of grammar schools is often highlighted, but during the 70's and 80's the old rote ways of teaching were scrapped, but continued in overseas territories and the results spoke for themselves, higher literacy and education were achieved on average in these overseas territories than back in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_learning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_learning "However, advocates of traditional education have criticized the new American standards as slighting learning basic facts and elementary arithmetic, and replacing content with process-based skills. In math and science, rote methods are often used, for example to memorize formulas." This US driven process based thinking, is an attempt and demonstration of the US' desire to have everyone in front of a computer where they can be monitored surreptitiously. Something else not mentioned is the difference in the US diet compared to the European diet. If you need a diet to boost GDP, to constantly stimulate then the US diet is it, but it will burn people out more quickly with ill health. The European model with higher food standards currently is a good standard, especially when comparing how the Chinese have been taught to eat anything that moves, hence their diverse range of palatable foods. This blog, could enhance its credibility by taking into account factors like diet and health care, instead of just muddying the waters.
deleted 4y ago
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TrainedMonkey 4y ago
AFAIK, pension age raise is driven almost entirely by demographic collapse of the developed countries. Specifically there are more people are retiring than entering the workforce. After that happens pension funds start bleeding money and something has to give. Pension age raise is a giant hammer, but the alternatives include raising taxes, making healthcare drastically cheaper, or Machiavellian tactics like banning abortions/contraception 20 years prior... France already has high taxes and amazing work-life balance. I don't know much about state of medical industry to comment. However, if its not completely terrible, then raising the retirement age seems like the only knob that could be turned.
yodsanklai 4y ago
> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago), so we're not feeling this yet 2. be at least 62 The reform wants to push 62 to 64 in 2. The problem is that educated people will already retire after 64 because of the first constraint. So this reform targets explicitly those who started to work younger, and who are also those with lower life expectancy and with the hardest job. This is unfair. At the same time, France (as in French citizen) has never been as rich in history as it is now. There should be better wealth redistribution here. It's very apparent when you look at the numbers. Another issue is employment. In practice, a lot of people struggle to find a job when they are 55+. These reforms will increase poverty in the country. Last point. France isn't like the US were people are incentized to build equity for their retirement. The rule of the game here is that current employees pay for retirees and in exchange expect their pension to be taken care of when they are older. The rules are changing midway and people are upset about it.
- bsaul 4y ago
  "france has never been as rich in history". Which number are you talking about ? It seems like a pretty hard fact to demonstrate. If you look at the production of france-based international companies, then you're also including the production performed by citizen of other countries. If you look at total revenue per inhabitant, then you need to adjust for inflation, and the fact that some citizen gain revenues from production performed in other countries (via shares, or simply working in a multinational company) What's clear however, is that france as never been ranked lower in every international ranking (education and economy) as today.
  - Twisell 4y ago
    That's the point right wing neoliberal policies applied in France over the last two decades have degraded life conditions of the commons people and only maximized record profit of french shareholders (this is what OP was referring to "never as rich in history") So yeah maybe it's time to stop trying to fix the french model by applying the same recipes that increased inequalities in the US in the first place...
nitwit005 4y ago
No one can predict this stuff decades out. You'd need to somehow predict technological changes, major wars, and other events that require basically being a prophet. Even when people do vow not to cut these programs, they are planning on making a change, it's just what they plan to change is the tax rate or amount of debt issued.
- moremetadata 4y ago
  Stop making excuses for these criminals that run the country and the banksters who print the money through loans and mortgages. Politicians constantly move the goal posts, to deliberately muddy the water, as we see with annual budget days. Banksters print new money when they lend out money without explaining how their Basel Bank of International Settlements approved ponzi scheme works. I can not for the life of me figure out why the public put up with this status quo, but their audacity is on display for all to see.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

omegaworks 4y ago

>promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. If the government can not get something basic like covering subsistence-level costs for its population over 62 working without bankrupting the country, the government is broken, the economic system is broken and shutting it down is an appropriate response. Technology and efficiency has caused labor productivity to increase [1] and that increase has not been captured in wages. It has been instead captured by private capital as profit. 1. https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/piketty/2017/01/09/of-productivity-in-france-and-in-germany/ https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/piketty/2017/01/09/of-productivi...

LeftHandPath 4y ago
Fascinating article. Loved this quote in particular: > The truth is that this trade surplus is not really a choice: it is the outcome of decentralised decisions made by millions of economic actors and in the absence of an adequate mechanism for correction. To put it simply: there is no pilot in the plane, or at least the pilots available are not very accurate.
dh2022 4y ago
The reason for discrepancy between productivity growth and wages stagnant is because the productivity initiatives were created by a few people that benefited handsomely, not by the masses employed in call centers / coffee shops / warehouses. I think one probable reason for this change was technology - technology made spreading knowledge and controlling processes among thousands of entities a lot cheaper. Who are these few people? Most likely you will find them in corporate centers. These people constantly fine tune processes, haggle with suppliers, diversify their suppliers, create new machines, lobby for legislation to make off-shoring easier, etc... I had the opportunity to work 4 years in Amazon as Financial Analyst. None of the cost savings initiatives came from call centers / distribution centers. Even more to the point, as part of ACES program, bright motivated individuals in call centers / distribution centers would be picked up and brought to HQ so their initiatives can be applied to the entire company. When I worked as Financial Analyst with Starbucks there was only one cost saving initiative that came from a store manager - that store manager figured out how to use less milk for the lattes. All the other cost saving initiatives came from HQ.
moremetadata 4y ago
No mention of Lichtenstein when it mentions The Emirates, Norway or Luxemburg. > In contrast, the persistent backwardness in British productivity, which never reached the American level, is usually attributed to the historical weaknesses in the educational system. The British state getting rid of grammar schools is often highlighted, but during the 70's and 80's the old rote ways of teaching were scrapped, but continued in overseas territories and the results spoke for themselves, higher literacy and education were achieved on average in these overseas territories than back in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_learning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_learning "However, advocates of traditional education have criticized the new American standards as slighting learning basic facts and elementary arithmetic, and replacing content with process-based skills. In math and science, rote methods are often used, for example to memorize formulas." This US driven process based thinking, is an attempt and demonstration of the US' desire to have everyone in front of a computer where they can be monitored surreptitiously. Something else not mentioned is the difference in the US diet compared to the European diet. If you need a diet to boost GDP, to constantly stimulate then the US diet is it, but it will burn people out more quickly with ill health. The European model with higher food standards currently is a good standard, especially when comparing how the Chinese have been taught to eat anything that moves, hence their diverse range of palatable foods. This blog, could enhance its credibility by taking into account factors like diet and health care, instead of just muddying the waters.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

TrainedMonkey 4y ago

AFAIK, pension age raise is driven almost entirely by demographic collapse of the developed countries. Specifically there are more people are retiring than entering the workforce. After that happens pension funds start bleeding money and something has to give. Pension age raise is a giant hammer, but the alternatives include raising taxes, making healthcare drastically cheaper, or Machiavellian tactics like banning abortions/contraception 20 years prior... France already has high taxes and amazing work-life balance. I don't know much about state of medical industry to comment. However, if its not completely terrible, then raising the retirement age seems like the only knob that could be turned.

yodsanklai 4y ago

> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago), so we're not feeling this yet 2. be at least 62 The reform wants to push 62 to 64 in 2. The problem is that educated people will already retire after 64 because of the first constraint. So this reform targets explicitly those who started to work younger, and who are also those with lower life expectancy and with the hardest job. This is unfair. At the same time, France (as in French citizen) has never been as rich in history as it is now. There should be better wealth redistribution here. It's very apparent when you look at the numbers. Another issue is employment. In practice, a lot of people struggle to find a job when they are 55+. These reforms will increase poverty in the country. Last point. France isn't like the US were people are incentized to build equity for their retirement. The rule of the game here is that current employees pay for retirees and in exchange expect their pension to be taken care of when they are older. The rules are changing midway and people are upset about it.

bsaul 4y ago
"france has never been as rich in history". Which number are you talking about ? It seems like a pretty hard fact to demonstrate. If you look at the production of france-based international companies, then you're also including the production performed by citizen of other countries. If you look at total revenue per inhabitant, then you need to adjust for inflation, and the fact that some citizen gain revenues from production performed in other countries (via shares, or simply working in a multinational company) What's clear however, is that france as never been ranked lower in every international ranking (education and economy) as today.
- Twisell 4y ago
  That's the point right wing neoliberal policies applied in France over the last two decades have degraded life conditions of the commons people and only maximized record profit of french shareholders (this is what OP was referring to "never as rich in history") So yeah maybe it's time to stop trying to fix the french model by applying the same recipes that increased inequalities in the US in the first place...

nitwit005 4y ago

No one can predict this stuff decades out. You'd need to somehow predict technological changes, major wars, and other events that require basically being a prophet. Even when people do vow not to cut these programs, they are planning on making a change, it's just what they plan to change is the tax rate or amount of debt issued.

moremetadata 4y ago
Stop making excuses for these criminals that run the country and the banksters who print the money through loans and mortgages. Politicians constantly move the goal posts, to deliberately muddy the water, as we see with annual budget days. Banksters print new money when they lend out money without explaining how their Basel Bank of International Settlements approved ponzi scheme works. I can not for the life of me figure out why the public put up with this status quo, but their audacity is on display for all to see.