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Actually, some of the most popular laptops (eg: every macbook ever sold and every laptop on display at my local best-buy) do not have this type of built-in poin

Actually, some of the most popular laptops (eg: every macbook ever sold and every laptop on display at my local best-buy) do not have this type of built-in pointer. Trackpads are very common. Index finger pointing sticks are not. And they are much more effective than trackpads. Given the choice between keyboard with trackpad vs keyboard and mouse, I too would choose keyboard and mouse. I believe that I'm in a small minority of the general population simply because most people haven't been exposed to the less common alternative. Of course I may be wrong, and perhaps most people have tried this type of keyboard and just don't like it. In any case, it's not about productivity for me. It's about annoyance reduction, comfort, and convenience.

LeafStorm 15y ago
Actually, one advantage of trackpads over the center-mounted pointers is that you can perform gestures using a trackpad. Two fingers to scroll, pinch to zoom, slide between desktops, etc. etc. You could use keyboard shortcuts for those, but when I'm Web browsing I rather enjoy using the scroll/zoom gestures on my Macbook's trackpad.
wazoox 15y ago
I always found the small stick on IBM laptops utterly imprecise to the point of being unusable. OTOH I find that current Mac trackpads are as good as a mouse most of the time, even slightly better because of three and four fingers gestures.
jodrellblank 15y ago
Index finger pointing sticks are not. And they are much more effective than trackpads. You wouldn't mouse with a fullsize joystick on a desktop, because its no good, it's equally no good on a laptop. I want to move the cursor a distance based on the distance I move, not based on the duration I move - it's comparable in wrongness to steering a racing car game with the arrow keys. Rant aside, why do you say they are more effective, anyway?
- tjoff 15y ago
  I want to move the cursor a distance based on the distance I move, not based on the duration I move - it's comparable in wrongness to steering a racing car game with the arrow keys. It depends on the total amount of pressure, not time... Just as using a mouse or a trackpad depends on the distance and not the time you move your finger. Exactly the same thing. The difference, in practice, is just that you can't put as much force (comfortably) as you can move your finger/mouse with speed. That's why I consider the index finger pointing stick a complement to a real mouse. The same goes for the trackpad where you must have a low sensitivity to get any precision at all, or you could use acceleration but that's just awful (now the distance you move your finger have nothing to do with how long the cursor will move, now you also have to take time into consideration). And as a complement the index finger pointing stick is vastly superior to the trackpad since you don't have to move your hands at all to switch between them. And for precision work or stuff that require "performance" a real mouse is the way to go anyway.
dpark 15y ago
> Trackpads are very common. Index finger pointing sticks are not. And they are much more effective than trackpads. Meh. Some people love them. Some people hate them. Most people who have both the nub and a trackpad seem to use the trackpad. I personally find that modern trackpads are far more usable, even ignoring the benefits of multi-touch and the improvements of the new clickpads. HCI is moving toward direct interaction. The nub is the opposite direction. Touching the screen can provide something very close direct interaction. A trackpad or mouse adds a later of abstraction, as your motions are not directly on the screen, but instead translated to the screen. The mouse cursor becomes a proxy for your finger. The nub adds yet another layer of indirection, as your actions are reduced to prodding a tiny joystick. No longer is the mouse cursor a proxy for your finger, because it does not move with your finger.

LeafStorm 15y ago

Actually, one advantage of trackpads over the center-mounted pointers is that you can perform gestures using a trackpad. Two fingers to scroll, pinch to zoom, slide between desktops, etc. etc. You could use keyboard shortcuts for those, but when I'm Web browsing I rather enjoy using the scroll/zoom gestures on my Macbook's trackpad.

wazoox 15y ago

I always found the small stick on IBM laptops utterly imprecise to the point of being unusable. OTOH I find that current Mac trackpads are as good as a mouse most of the time, even slightly better because of three and four fingers gestures.

jodrellblank 15y ago

Index finger pointing sticks are not. And they are much more effective than trackpads. You wouldn't mouse with a fullsize joystick on a desktop, because its no good, it's equally no good on a laptop. I want to move the cursor a distance based on the distance I move, not based on the duration I move - it's comparable in wrongness to steering a racing car game with the arrow keys. Rant aside, why do you say they are more effective, anyway?

tjoff 15y ago
I want to move the cursor a distance based on the distance I move, not based on the duration I move - it's comparable in wrongness to steering a racing car game with the arrow keys. It depends on the total amount of pressure, not time... Just as using a mouse or a trackpad depends on the distance and not the time you move your finger. Exactly the same thing. The difference, in practice, is just that you can't put as much force (comfortably) as you can move your finger/mouse with speed. That's why I consider the index finger pointing stick a complement to a real mouse. The same goes for the trackpad where you must have a low sensitivity to get any precision at all, or you could use acceleration but that's just awful (now the distance you move your finger have nothing to do with how long the cursor will move, now you also have to take time into consideration). And as a complement the index finger pointing stick is vastly superior to the trackpad since you don't have to move your hands at all to switch between them. And for precision work or stuff that require "performance" a real mouse is the way to go anyway.

dpark 15y ago

> Trackpads are very common. Index finger pointing sticks are not. And they are much more effective than trackpads. Meh. Some people love them. Some people hate them. Most people who have both the nub and a trackpad seem to use the trackpad. I personally find that modern trackpads are far more usable, even ignoring the benefits of multi-touch and the improvements of the new clickpads. HCI is moving toward direct interaction. The nub is the opposite direction. Touching the screen can provide something very close direct interaction. A trackpad or mouse adds a later of abstraction, as your motions are not directly on the screen, but instead translated to the screen. The mouse cursor becomes a proxy for your finger. The nub adds yet another layer of indirection, as your actions are reduced to prodding a tiny joystick. No longer is the mouse cursor a proxy for your finger, because it does not move with your finger.