4 ms·

> This is asthma and cancer medication being seized because of an overly tight control of prescription drugs. Actually, many of these are medications (even lif

by Tozen 4y ago

> This is asthma and cancer medication being seized because of an overly tight control of prescription drugs. Actually, many of these are medications (even life saving ones) being seized to protect inflated pharmaceutical pricing and profits at the expense of poorer Americans (and those lacking health care). Significant numbers of people are ordering the medications out of desperation.

skyyler 4y ago
I order my medications illegally because it's so much cheaper than doing it through the legitimate system.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  how is this not stealing from people who are buying these drugs through the legitimate system.
  - plussed_reader 4y ago
    Funny you see the theft in one direction and not the other. Isn't the black market just a natural expression of agents engaging in free market principles?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    Because there is no actual theft going on? Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence - it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported.
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      > Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence Yes ? Are you suggesting they that comes out of pharma profits? > it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported. No because not taking medication isn't an option like not watching a pirated movie. Perhaps a closer analogy is shoplifting . Sure some amount of stealing is accounted for in the system but large scale shoplifting gets passed on to consumers.
      - skyyler 4y ago
        Friend, I still purchase them from companies that manufacture the drugs. Just not through the non-free American prescription drug market.
      - rysertio 4y ago
        There is a reason why patents have time limits.
      - edmundsauto 4y ago
        I think the pricing is based on the maximum amount each individual can bear, independent of costs. If your hypothesis was accurate, we should see prices go up when sales go down (independent of the cause of the sales drop). I don't think that is clear, but open to evidence if you have it handy. There might be a long term impact where fewer drugs are developed because there are lower profits, but even that feels awfully close to the "piracy hurts creative industries" argument that has been proven inconclusive at best and directionally wrong at worst.
  - NeuNeurosis 4y ago
    Wow thats a big assumption that the system the user is circumnavigating is legitimate. Their are 2 "official" reasons for that system, safety and patent protection. While both have their merits they don't legitimatize the current state of that system. By your definition the only difference in its status of legality is the location those drugs are purchased and used. This is a very flaky foundation for your argument of legitimacy and the outcome of theft. Most of the time any legitimate protest against what you believe is wrong elicits shouts of "theft", "illegitimate", "think of the children", "safety". This conversation would be much more productive if you provided any examples of that theft or support for why the system is legitimate to begin with. That being said I do think the system has a place but it desperately needs overhauled and people seeking alternatives to the system aren't the problem but the canary in the coal mine signalling the weakest of our fellow citizens can't make do with the system that should be serving them.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      " because it's so much cheaper" thats the reason gp is doing it. has nothing to do with all the stuff you've written. Gp doesn't care about 'weakest fellow citizens' plight or whatever, infact they don't care that prices for 'weakest citizens' might go up from his actions.
      - NeuNeurosis 4y ago
        I think your misguided in thinking someone who purchases outside the system is contributing to higher costs when you have fraud like this taking place in the government run systems let alone the private systems. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/09/how-medicare-and-medicaid-fraud-became-a-100b-problem-for-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/09/how-medicare-and-medicaid-fr...
  - skyyler 4y ago
    How am I stealing from people that can afford $800/mo medications by ordering them at actual market value?
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    … because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another? The drugs are paid for, they’re not stolen, and they’re not taken from the people who are buying the drugs another way - they’re separate systems. That’s actually more ridiculous than calling media piracy ‘theft’ and that’s a high bar. I honestly don’t see how you could possibly see the illegal drug trade as ‘stealing’
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      > … because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another? wouldn't it raise prices for legitimate buyers? ( ppl not willing to commit a federal crime) , hence taking money away from them.
      - skyyler 4y ago
        Why on earth would it do that? If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price.
        dangwhy 4y ago
        Because capital expects profits. Why on earth would anyone invest capital in biotech if its losing money. > If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price. These aren't stale muffins at your local grocery store to induce demand by lowering prices. These are supposedly life saving 800/month drugs, what would be the motivation for lowering prices.
        skyyler 4y ago
        They're drugs. The market in America wants $800/mo. The international online market wants what comes out to $34/mo. It's the same drug. It costs $34 online because that's how much it costs for the factory to produce it and make a profit. It costs $800 in America because that's how much my insurance company decided I'm going to pay for it. It would be idiotic for me, with my extremely limited funds, to pay for the American one.
dangwhy 4y ago
> to protect inflated pharmaceutical pricing and profits If federal laws were created with sole purpose of inflating pharma profits then you would just invest your life savings in these pharma companies and be set for life. You've literally found the golden goose if you really belive what you wrote there.

by Tozen 4y ago

skyyler 4y ago

I order my medications illegally because it's so much cheaper than doing it through the legitimate system.

dangwhy 4y ago
how is this not stealing from people who are buying these drugs through the legitimate system.
- plussed_reader 4y ago
  Funny you see the theft in one direction and not the other. Isn't the black market just a natural expression of agents engaging in free market principles?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  Because there is no actual theft going on? Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence - it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported.
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    > Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence Yes ? Are you suggesting they that comes out of pharma profits? > it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported. No because not taking medication isn't an option like not watching a pirated movie. Perhaps a closer analogy is shoplifting . Sure some amount of stealing is accounted for in the system but large scale shoplifting gets passed on to consumers.
    - skyyler 4y ago
      Friend, I still purchase them from companies that manufacture the drugs. Just not through the non-free American prescription drug market.
    - rysertio 4y ago
      There is a reason why patents have time limits.
    - edmundsauto 4y ago
      I think the pricing is based on the maximum amount each individual can bear, independent of costs. If your hypothesis was accurate, we should see prices go up when sales go down (independent of the cause of the sales drop). I don't think that is clear, but open to evidence if you have it handy. There might be a long term impact where fewer drugs are developed because there are lower profits, but even that feels awfully close to the "piracy hurts creative industries" argument that has been proven inconclusive at best and directionally wrong at worst.
- NeuNeurosis 4y ago
  Wow thats a big assumption that the system the user is circumnavigating is legitimate. Their are 2 "official" reasons for that system, safety and patent protection. While both have their merits they don't legitimatize the current state of that system. By your definition the only difference in its status of legality is the location those drugs are purchased and used. This is a very flaky foundation for your argument of legitimacy and the outcome of theft. Most of the time any legitimate protest against what you believe is wrong elicits shouts of "theft", "illegitimate", "think of the children", "safety". This conversation would be much more productive if you provided any examples of that theft or support for why the system is legitimate to begin with. That being said I do think the system has a place but it desperately needs overhauled and people seeking alternatives to the system aren't the problem but the canary in the coal mine signalling the weakest of our fellow citizens can't make do with the system that should be serving them.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    " because it's so much cheaper" thats the reason gp is doing it. has nothing to do with all the stuff you've written. Gp doesn't care about 'weakest fellow citizens' plight or whatever, infact they don't care that prices for 'weakest citizens' might go up from his actions.
    - NeuNeurosis 4y ago
      I think your misguided in thinking someone who purchases outside the system is contributing to higher costs when you have fraud like this taking place in the government run systems let alone the private systems. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/09/how-medicare-and-medicaid-fraud-became-a-100b-problem-for-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/09/how-medicare-and-medicaid-fr...
- skyyler 4y ago
  How am I stealing from people that can afford $800/mo medications by ordering them at actual market value?
- mock-possum 4y ago
  … because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another? The drugs are paid for, they’re not stolen, and they’re not taken from the people who are buying the drugs another way - they’re separate systems. That’s actually more ridiculous than calling media piracy ‘theft’ and that’s a high bar. I honestly don’t see how you could possibly see the illegal drug trade as ‘stealing’
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    > … because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another? wouldn't it raise prices for legitimate buyers? ( ppl not willing to commit a federal crime) , hence taking money away from them.
    - skyyler 4y ago
      Why on earth would it do that? If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price.
      - dangwhy 4y ago
        Because capital expects profits. Why on earth would anyone invest capital in biotech if its losing money. > If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price. These aren't stale muffins at your local grocery store to induce demand by lowering prices. These are supposedly life saving 800/month drugs, what would be the motivation for lowering prices.
        skyyler 4y ago
        They're drugs. The market in America wants $800/mo. The international online market wants what comes out to $34/mo. It's the same drug. It costs $34 online because that's how much it costs for the factory to produce it and make a profit. It costs $800 in America because that's how much my insurance company decided I'm going to pay for it. It would be idiotic for me, with my extremely limited funds, to pay for the American one.

dangwhy 4y ago

> to protect inflated pharmaceutical pricing and profits If federal laws were created with sole purpose of inflating pharma profits then you would just invest your life savings in these pharma companies and be set for life. You've literally found the golden goose if you really belive what you wrote there.