4 ms·

Or maybe the poorer parts of society should stop trying to be overeliant on the tax levied on a minority of skilled earners (so no trust fund kids) creating we

by kwere 4y ago

Or maybe the poorer parts of society should stop trying to be overeliant on the tax levied on a minority of skilled earners (so no trust fund kids) creating welfarism/populism, breaking the fabric of society (as in ancient Rome),incentivizing emigration/delocalization of taxbase; and try to be more selfsufficient from a budget stanpoint, like having a self-funded pension system, that in France case would be increasing contribution, raising retirement age, linking pension output to having kids (to stabilize age pyramid) here France revenues brakdown: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf

lm28469 4y ago
So what the US is doing ? I don't feel like they're doing much better, especially for the bottom 30%
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  They aren't doing any better, and for the same reasons.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    > the same reasons. Which reasons ? Both systems are about as opposed as you can imagine without straight up walking out of capitalism
    - forgetfreeman 4y ago
      Yes, keep going...
      - lm28469 4y ago
        You're the one making vague arguments, I'm not going to do your homework
- kwere 4y ago
  USA is a lot inefficient with spending money as a lot of it get syphoned in one way or another from various interest groups, from big pharma/healthcare/insurance, hedge funds that run universities to local government that run homeless shelter in opaque way (ask Cuomo sister). As OECD data, US social spending as % of GDP is above OECD average at 22.7%[0] [0]https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/social-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/social-spending.htm
forgetfreeman 4y ago
"skilled earners" here being a euphemism for inherited wealth oligarchs and trust fund kiddies, or are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%?
- kwere 4y ago
  most income for the state is from income tax, trust fund kids and oligarchs dont have high income tax[0] , and the wealth tax can be easily lowered by tax planning [0]https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    Seems like a fixable problem.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Please fix it. Until you are able to successfully do so, the rest of us will work on other solutions.
- cperciva 4y ago
  are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%? You seem to be confusing the top 1% with the top 0.01%. The vast majority of top 1% income earners -- in Canada, the number was recently reported as 95% by Statistics Canada -- are employed, with the largest numbers being in management, medicine, and "business professional" (lawyers, accountants, etc) professions.
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    I suppose that's fair. Quibbling about where to put the decimal point doesn't invalidate the larger issue however.
tgv 4y ago
Blame and tax the poor, and force them to breed. Nice plans. Perhaps you'd like to start your plan by swooping into France via Belgium.
- kwere 4y ago
  ironically the leverage that poor people had and have is their children, once upon a time for farming landlords & factory owners, today for government revenues, bcs poor people & middle class pay the most taxes in % as VAT, income tax, fees, contributions, etc... and dont have tax planning while making the welfarism looking remotely sustainable, but with modern demographic trends things are changing for the worse, and with printing money and "eating the rich" as the only policies on the table, we dont solve anything except kicking the can down the road And for the invading France via Belgium joke, it is hilarious bcs one of the compelling reasons why he started his aggressions in 1939 before the nation was ready was because he emptied German coffers to prop up his Nationalsocialistic welfare system and (he felt he) needed just an imperialistic trip to refill them[0]. the rest is history [0]https://youtu.be/mLHG4IfYE1w?t=1108 https://youtu.be/mLHG4IfYE1w?t=1108
hinata08 4y ago
skilled workers don't make a buck in France as an engineer, you choose to stay in France for the values, for the quality of life, for your family, or from some kind of patriotism after having had free college. And you go the USA for money ! Median earnings for engineering graduates is 36k/year in most schools. After direct 'contributions', you're lucky to get about 2000k€ /month (on which you have to save for other income taxes for the end of the year) My first engineering job, during COVID, was paid 20k€/year ! (bellow the legal minimum, but it was declared as an internship) It's far from the 6 figure salaries in cali ! Medical doctors should do about 6000€/month too. Companies in here don't care about hiring skilled workers. They want cheap workers, because they have no long term R&D.

by kwere 4y ago

lm28469 4y ago

So what the US is doing ? I don't feel like they're doing much better, especially for the bottom 30%

forgetfreeman 4y ago
They aren't doing any better, and for the same reasons.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > the same reasons. Which reasons ? Both systems are about as opposed as you can imagine without straight up walking out of capitalism
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    Yes, keep going...
    - lm28469 4y ago
      You're the one making vague arguments, I'm not going to do your homework
kwere 4y ago
USA is a lot inefficient with spending money as a lot of it get syphoned in one way or another from various interest groups, from big pharma/healthcare/insurance, hedge funds that run universities to local government that run homeless shelter in opaque way (ask Cuomo sister). As OECD data, US social spending as % of GDP is above OECD average at 22.7%[0] [0]https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/social-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/socialexp/social-spending.htm

forgetfreeman 4y ago

"skilled earners" here being a euphemism for inherited wealth oligarchs and trust fund kiddies, or are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%?

kwere 4y ago
most income for the state is from income tax, trust fund kids and oligarchs dont have high income tax[0] , and the wealth tax can be easily lowered by tax planning [0]https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-france.pdf
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Seems like a fixable problem.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Please fix it. Until you are able to successfully do so, the rest of us will work on other solutions.
cperciva 4y ago
are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%? You seem to be confusing the top 1% with the top 0.01%. The vast majority of top 1% income earners -- in Canada, the number was recently reported as 95% by Statistics Canada -- are employed, with the largest numbers being in management, medicine, and "business professional" (lawyers, accountants, etc) professions.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  I suppose that's fair. Quibbling about where to put the decimal point doesn't invalidate the larger issue however.

tgv 4y ago

Blame and tax the poor, and force them to breed. Nice plans. Perhaps you'd like to start your plan by swooping into France via Belgium.

kwere 4y ago
ironically the leverage that poor people had and have is their children, once upon a time for farming landlords & factory owners, today for government revenues, bcs poor people & middle class pay the most taxes in % as VAT, income tax, fees, contributions, etc... and dont have tax planning while making the welfarism looking remotely sustainable, but with modern demographic trends things are changing for the worse, and with printing money and "eating the rich" as the only policies on the table, we dont solve anything except kicking the can down the road And for the invading France via Belgium joke, it is hilarious bcs one of the compelling reasons why he started his aggressions in 1939 before the nation was ready was because he emptied German coffers to prop up his Nationalsocialistic welfare system and (he felt he) needed just an imperialistic trip to refill them[0]. the rest is history [0]https://youtu.be/mLHG4IfYE1w?t=1108 https://youtu.be/mLHG4IfYE1w?t=1108

hinata08 4y ago

skilled workers don't make a buck in France as an engineer, you choose to stay in France for the values, for the quality of life, for your family, or from some kind of patriotism after having had free college. And you go the USA for money ! Median earnings for engineering graduates is 36k/year in most schools. After direct 'contributions', you're lucky to get about 2000k€ /month (on which you have to save for other income taxes for the end of the year) My first engineering job, during COVID, was paid 20k€/year ! (bellow the legal minimum, but it was declared as an internship) It's far from the 6 figure salaries in cali ! Medical doctors should do about 6000€/month too. Companies in here don't care about hiring skilled workers. They want cheap workers, because they have no long term R&D.