9 ms·

But when you purchase hardware, are you not paying a lower cost than what you would to the hyperscalers?

by sanp 4y ago

dilyevsky 4y ago
When you buy oem drives yes, when you purchase from high touch vendor such as PS and proprietary tech then no
- bombcar 4y ago
  it can go either way and it entirely depends on your use case and what you need 4PB of cloud storage is probably a bit more than $800,000k and then you still have data "in the cloud" and not local to whatever you're doing with it.
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    Agreed. If you’re egressing a lot to other sites or have elevated iops reqs then cloud may still lose
- SteveNuts 4y ago
  That’s debatable when you consider the performance you get from Pure. Our X20 which is on the small end, with only 10 drives can easily do hundreds of thousands of IOPs, supporting over 1000 VMs and a high performance ERP solution. The whole thing costs us about 50k a year. On an AWS/GCP that would cost a lot, lot more.
  - riku_iki 4y ago
    > hundreds of thousands of IOPs that's like number for consumer grade ssd which costs $100?
    - SteveNuts 4y ago
      Sure, try running a thousand VMs on it though (which is an extremely random workload). A single sequential test at an optimal byte size benchmark for a consumer SSD is not representative of a real workload these arrays would see. Doing so is a lot more complex and intensive than what a single consumer grade SSD can handle. My point was just that if you wanted to get dedicated IOPs on AWS to match what you get with modern SANs, it’ll cost you far more.
      - riku_iki 4y ago
        it is random 4k iops: https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/711085i0072733DF2FDB712/image-size/large?v=v2&px=999 https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-i... I tend to think your number for PS is likely off.
        SteveNuts 4y ago
        In what way? It can do more or less?
        riku_iki 4y ago
        likely much more: scale with ssd speed and number of disks. Also, I am not sure how it will stack up against some cloud instance with bunch of ssd under software raid.
        SteveNuts 4y ago
        I agree that if you ran a synthetic benchmark against a brand new pure x20 with 10 NVME drives you'd see astronomical numbers for iops. That is absolutely not representative of a real workload of mixed reads and writes, different block sizes, potentially different queue depths, all coming in on hundreds or maybe thousands of different volumes. A single consumer Samsung SSD would hilariously crumble under a real workload, it will NOT deliver hundreds of thousands of IOPs in that environment. Your benchmark screenshot is the equivalent of showing your pickup truck can do burnouts in the parking lot, and extrapolating that to think it could keep up with a Ferrari on the Nurburgring.
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    Yes if you’re treading io1/2 territory it might be less expensive than cloud. Most people seem pretty happy with dogshit gp2/3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - SteveNuts 4y ago
      Exactly.
  - briffle 4y ago
    Also compared to EMC storage. I haven't used since 2015, but they were very, very proud of their storage tools.
    - Kon-Peki 4y ago
      We switched from EMC to PS for our on-prem stuff about 5 or 6 years ago. I sat in on some of the RFP process. PS was basically the same price for a vastly superior offering. You had to make a leap of faith, though, that PS would survive as a company. Now there’s no doubt, so they probably have more pricing power. And EMC most likely has an offering that competes with the performance (or at least as close as they can get). Back then it was flash vs spinning disks. We do most of our stuff in the cloud, BTW, and PS is faster for cheaper, by a wide margin. But we’re not going to bring that compute back (I’d like to). One thing I remember was them being very open and direct, and they wanted to know a lot of heuristics about our data so they could give an accurate estimate about speed and dedup. Which was really close to the reality. Oh, and we’re using one of their devices for an Itanium OpenVMS cluster, it works like a charm. Try getting a startup to support that kind of setup these days, lol

But when you purchase hardware, are you not paying a lower cost than what you would to the hyperscalers?

by sanp 4y ago

But when you purchase hardware, are you not paying a lower cost than what you would to the hyperscalers?

dilyevsky 4y ago

When you buy oem drives yes, when you purchase from high touch vendor such as PS and proprietary tech then no

bombcar 4y ago
it can go either way and it entirely depends on your use case and what you need 4PB of cloud storage is probably a bit more than $800,000k and then you still have data "in the cloud" and not local to whatever you're doing with it.
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  Agreed. If you’re egressing a lot to other sites or have elevated iops reqs then cloud may still lose
SteveNuts 4y ago
That’s debatable when you consider the performance you get from Pure. Our X20 which is on the small end, with only 10 drives can easily do hundreds of thousands of IOPs, supporting over 1000 VMs and a high performance ERP solution. The whole thing costs us about 50k a year. On an AWS/GCP that would cost a lot, lot more.
- riku_iki 4y ago
  > hundreds of thousands of IOPs that's like number for consumer grade ssd which costs $100?
  - SteveNuts 4y ago
    Sure, try running a thousand VMs on it though (which is an extremely random workload). A single sequential test at an optimal byte size benchmark for a consumer SSD is not representative of a real workload these arrays would see. Doing so is a lot more complex and intensive than what a single consumer grade SSD can handle. My point was just that if you wanted to get dedicated IOPs on AWS to match what you get with modern SANs, it’ll cost you far more.
    - riku_iki 4y ago
      it is random 4k iops: https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/711085i0072733DF2FDB712/image-size/large?v=v2&px=999 https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-i... I tend to think your number for PS is likely off.
      - SteveNuts 4y ago
        In what way? It can do more or less?
        riku_iki 4y ago
        likely much more: scale with ssd speed and number of disks. Also, I am not sure how it will stack up against some cloud instance with bunch of ssd under software raid.
        SteveNuts 4y ago
        I agree that if you ran a synthetic benchmark against a brand new pure x20 with 10 NVME drives you'd see astronomical numbers for iops. That is absolutely not representative of a real workload of mixed reads and writes, different block sizes, potentially different queue depths, all coming in on hundreds or maybe thousands of different volumes. A single consumer Samsung SSD would hilariously crumble under a real workload, it will NOT deliver hundreds of thousands of IOPs in that environment. Your benchmark screenshot is the equivalent of showing your pickup truck can do burnouts in the parking lot, and extrapolating that to think it could keep up with a Ferrari on the Nurburgring.
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  Yes if you’re treading io1/2 territory it might be less expensive than cloud. Most people seem pretty happy with dogshit gp2/3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - SteveNuts 4y ago
    Exactly.
- briffle 4y ago
  Also compared to EMC storage. I haven't used since 2015, but they were very, very proud of their storage tools.
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    We switched from EMC to PS for our on-prem stuff about 5 or 6 years ago. I sat in on some of the RFP process. PS was basically the same price for a vastly superior offering. You had to make a leap of faith, though, that PS would survive as a company. Now there’s no doubt, so they probably have more pricing power. And EMC most likely has an offering that competes with the performance (or at least as close as they can get). Back then it was flash vs spinning disks. We do most of our stuff in the cloud, BTW, and PS is faster for cheaper, by a wide margin. But we’re not going to bring that compute back (I’d like to). One thing I remember was them being very open and direct, and they wanted to know a lot of heuristics about our data so they could give an accurate estimate about speed and dedup. Which was really close to the reality. Oh, and we’re using one of their devices for an Itanium OpenVMS cluster, it works like a charm. Try getting a startup to support that kind of setup these days, lol