3 ms·

And just like that, all the moral-panic action around fentanyl makes perfect sense.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Opioid related deaths have increased sharply in the past few years, largely due to the influx of Fentanyl: https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overd... If you think this is just a “moral panic” then you’re wrong. It’s a severe problem and it’s only getting worse.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Not just, but the media [EDIT: and political] component absolutely is.
colechristensen 4y ago
I talked to this old hippie drug dealer who was talking about all of these things he wouldn’t touch any more because the chance of fentanyl was too high and he’d had friends killed by fentanyl. Exactly the opposite kind of person to be susceptible to that kind of moral panic. Locally they recently did a bust and found enough raw fentanyl for a million lethal doses or enough to get every single person in the extended metro area high. A cheap drug where an amount equal to a few grains of sand can kill is indeed worth the concern.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Sure, but the "public face" of this is stories about fentanyl in kids' candy and cops having seizures after someone tells them they were within ten meters of some fentanyl. That aspect (i.e. the bullshit) is textbook moral-panic stuff.
  - starkd 4y ago
    The hyperbole might be intentional, because it might be the only way to get the word out to the marginalised elements of society that are at greatest risk. I agree is not ideal, because it might lead people to ignore it. But the danger is very real.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      The target of those stories isn't marginalized elements, it's boring straight-laced suburban America. That's how you build enthusiasm for cracking down on illicit drug imports—which crackdown apparently mostly results in stopping prescription drugs that aren't fent, which may explain why this is being pushed so hard.
      - starkd 4y ago
        The target is mothers and fathers who have a child that might be susceptible to using recreational drugs. So, that they are aware and take extra notice. And maybe even have some narcan on hand just in case.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Sorry for the fox news link (the WaPo source is paywalled) but there's a lawsuit being filed against airbnb and renters because someone's baby died of a fentanyl overdose after being laid down for a nap in a rental: https://www.foxnews.com/media/baby-dies-florida-airbnb-fentanyl-exposure-family-suspects-previous-renters-threw-drug-fueled-party?intcmp=tw_fnc https://www.foxnews.com/media/baby-dies-florida-airbnb-fenta... It's not bullshit when it is really happening. Lots of people on the internet want to pretend it's not real, but there's actual video footage of it: https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/video-florida-cop-treated-for-overdose-after-possible-fentanyl-exposure-police-say/ https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/video-florida-cop-treated-... Does that mean you're likely to die of exposure to fentanyl tomorrow? Almost certainly not (unless you're doing drugs cut with it, like a friend of mine did). Does that mean we should sit back and let it happen? No, not at all.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      What's "really happening" is not in line with how it's being reported. It's being reported like the Tide Pod thing, which was (surprise, surprise) 99% made-up with a nugget of truth (which was not enough material to drive months of coverage, certainly) at the core, while news organizations pointedly failed to look into it (the actual news, to the extent there is any, isn't that teenagers were doing it—which barely happened—but that toddlers and old people with dementia eat them at many times the rate of what was happening in that not-actually-a-fad—but "people without full mental faculties sometimes consume cleaning products" isn't a story, it's just normal life). Yes, of course fent is dangerous. Yes, if a kid finds a little in an AirBnB and ingests it, that could kill them. The angle the news is taking is largely bullshit, though, and it's bullshit very much on purpose, like all the other times this happens. They're not doing it to inform. [EDIT] The most important aspect of how the media are covering this is probably that their focus is on stories (real or otherwise) that will tend to get the broad, dull middle class to support more import enforcement—not on coverage that might, say, tend to build support for proven harm-reduction like safe use sites w/ drug purity testing and distributing narcan more widely. Evidently, that stepped-up import enforcement largely stops other drugs—like asthma medicine. Which raises the very real possibility that this panic and the tone & shape it's taken—which, again, isn't promoting actual safety for the people most-affected by this—is driven, at least in part, by trade interest groups & their PR firms/departments.
mschuster91 4y ago
Fentanyl is scary shit normal people wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, and its derivates like carfentanyl are even worse. It's one thing if you get a legit supply of the stuff diverted from, say, a veterinary practice. At least the dosage won't be random. But street dealers? Do you think these people have the slightest idea how to properly mix stuff together? Fuck up with carfentanyl and out of 100 pills you end up with half the supply duds, half the supply containing the expected amount and one that's going to kill the consumer. (Obviously, YMMV depending on how competent the dealer is) So, why do dealers end up using carfentanyl anyway? Easy: the stuff is up to many thousand times more effective than heroin [1], so it's easier to smuggle large quantities of it across borders. That being said: The campaigns of fentanyl or generally drug-laced helloween sweets are complete and utter BS, although I expect more incidences of cannabis edibles in the future given the growth of the industry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil#Pharmacodynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil#Pharmacodynamics
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  JFC, why are people taking this comment as claiming fentanyl is safe? There's, specifically, a moral-panic-style media campaign around fentanyl, it's the main way it's making it to the probably-Sinclair-owned local evening news that your mom and dad watch, and the bullshit stories they share with one another on Facebook. In that world, danger to addicts is secondary to "ARE THE CHINESE TRYING TO POISON YOUR KIDS WITH FENTANYL CANDY?" and "police say touching one millionth of a gram of fentanyl can cause seizures and death" and crap like that. That's, very explicitly, what I was writing about. One reason the media drive these kinds of panics is because it gets them attention, which is what they sell. This story brings to mind the possibility that it's also being driven by prescription drug manufacturer industry associations and interest groups, who don't give a fuck about fent but would very much like a strong, popular push to more strongly police prescription drug imports (as a side-effect—but, apparently, maybe the main effect—of targeting fent)
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    > being driven by prescription drug manufacturer industry associations and interest groups You do know those groups are currently profiting off selling fentanyl for medical uses? Fentanyl is very commonly used in US medicine - particularly surgeries - today.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Opioid related deaths have increased sharply in the past few years, largely due to the influx of Fentanyl: https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overd... If you think this is just a “moral panic” then you’re wrong. It’s a severe problem and it’s only getting worse.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Not just, but the media [EDIT: and political] component absolutely is.

colechristensen 4y ago

I talked to this old hippie drug dealer who was talking about all of these things he wouldn’t touch any more because the chance of fentanyl was too high and he’d had friends killed by fentanyl. Exactly the opposite kind of person to be susceptible to that kind of moral panic. Locally they recently did a bust and found enough raw fentanyl for a million lethal doses or enough to get every single person in the extended metro area high. A cheap drug where an amount equal to a few grains of sand can kill is indeed worth the concern.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Sure, but the "public face" of this is stories about fentanyl in kids' candy and cops having seizures after someone tells them they were within ten meters of some fentanyl. That aspect (i.e. the bullshit) is textbook moral-panic stuff.
- starkd 4y ago
  The hyperbole might be intentional, because it might be the only way to get the word out to the marginalised elements of society that are at greatest risk. I agree is not ideal, because it might lead people to ignore it. But the danger is very real.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    The target of those stories isn't marginalized elements, it's boring straight-laced suburban America. That's how you build enthusiasm for cracking down on illicit drug imports—which crackdown apparently mostly results in stopping prescription drugs that aren't fent, which may explain why this is being pushed so hard.
    - starkd 4y ago
      The target is mothers and fathers who have a child that might be susceptible to using recreational drugs. So, that they are aware and take extra notice. And maybe even have some narcan on hand just in case.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Sorry for the fox news link (the WaPo source is paywalled) but there's a lawsuit being filed against airbnb and renters because someone's baby died of a fentanyl overdose after being laid down for a nap in a rental: https://www.foxnews.com/media/baby-dies-florida-airbnb-fentanyl-exposure-family-suspects-previous-renters-threw-drug-fueled-party?intcmp=tw_fnc https://www.foxnews.com/media/baby-dies-florida-airbnb-fenta... It's not bullshit when it is really happening. Lots of people on the internet want to pretend it's not real, but there's actual video footage of it: https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/video-florida-cop-treated-for-overdose-after-possible-fentanyl-exposure-police-say/ https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/video-florida-cop-treated-... Does that mean you're likely to die of exposure to fentanyl tomorrow? Almost certainly not (unless you're doing drugs cut with it, like a friend of mine did). Does that mean we should sit back and let it happen? No, not at all.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    What's "really happening" is not in line with how it's being reported. It's being reported like the Tide Pod thing, which was (surprise, surprise) 99% made-up with a nugget of truth (which was not enough material to drive months of coverage, certainly) at the core, while news organizations pointedly failed to look into it (the actual news, to the extent there is any, isn't that teenagers were doing it—which barely happened—but that toddlers and old people with dementia eat them at many times the rate of what was happening in that not-actually-a-fad—but "people without full mental faculties sometimes consume cleaning products" isn't a story, it's just normal life). Yes, of course fent is dangerous. Yes, if a kid finds a little in an AirBnB and ingests it, that could kill them. The angle the news is taking is largely bullshit, though, and it's bullshit very much on purpose, like all the other times this happens. They're not doing it to inform. [EDIT] The most important aspect of how the media are covering this is probably that their focus is on stories (real or otherwise) that will tend to get the broad, dull middle class to support more import enforcement—not on coverage that might, say, tend to build support for proven harm-reduction like safe use sites w/ drug purity testing and distributing narcan more widely. Evidently, that stepped-up import enforcement largely stops other drugs—like asthma medicine. Which raises the very real possibility that this panic and the tone & shape it's taken—which, again, isn't promoting actual safety for the people most-affected by this—is driven, at least in part, by trade interest groups & their PR firms/departments.

mschuster91 4y ago

Fentanyl is scary shit normal people wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, and its derivates like carfentanyl are even worse. It's one thing if you get a legit supply of the stuff diverted from, say, a veterinary practice. At least the dosage won't be random. But street dealers? Do you think these people have the slightest idea how to properly mix stuff together? Fuck up with carfentanyl and out of 100 pills you end up with half the supply duds, half the supply containing the expected amount and one that's going to kill the consumer. (Obviously, YMMV depending on how competent the dealer is) So, why do dealers end up using carfentanyl anyway? Easy: the stuff is up to many thousand times more effective than heroin [1], so it's easier to smuggle large quantities of it across borders. That being said: The campaigns of fentanyl or generally drug-laced helloween sweets are complete and utter BS, although I expect more incidences of cannabis edibles in the future given the growth of the industry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil#Pharmacodynamics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil#Pharmacodynamics

yamtaddle 4y ago
JFC, why are people taking this comment as claiming fentanyl is safe? There's, specifically, a moral-panic-style media campaign around fentanyl, it's the main way it's making it to the probably-Sinclair-owned local evening news that your mom and dad watch, and the bullshit stories they share with one another on Facebook. In that world, danger to addicts is secondary to "ARE THE CHINESE TRYING TO POISON YOUR KIDS WITH FENTANYL CANDY?" and "police say touching one millionth of a gram of fentanyl can cause seizures and death" and crap like that. That's, very explicitly, what I was writing about. One reason the media drive these kinds of panics is because it gets them attention, which is what they sell. This story brings to mind the possibility that it's also being driven by prescription drug manufacturer industry associations and interest groups, who don't give a fuck about fent but would very much like a strong, popular push to more strongly police prescription drug imports (as a side-effect—but, apparently, maybe the main effect—of targeting fent)
- cwkoss 4y ago
  > being driven by prescription drug manufacturer industry associations and interest groups You do know those groups are currently profiting off selling fentanyl for medical uses? Fentanyl is very commonly used in US medicine - particularly surgeries - today.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]